Apparently America is not becoming a banana republic quickly enough to suit some big US companies.
I heard last week that a friend’s sister, 57 years old and a very long standing IBM employee, had been offered the choice of either losing her job, or being sent to India or Latin America. In the old days, an offshore posting was a perk, or at least not a bad thing financially, since the employer would provide various expat subsidies to make up for meaningful additional costs (such as filing extra tax returns, higher housing costs when applicable, etc.),. The general intent was to make them whole (and some used the subsidies as a way to sweeten the pot, since that sort of move is disruptive personally, particularly for employees with school-age children).
Clearly, those perks don’t apply here. A CNN article describes that the jobs on offer are in third world countries, at local wages. IBM is proving only some assistance with moving and visas. Given the cost of hiring and getting new workers up to speed, IBM probably comes out ahead on those few who decide to participate.
From CNN:
IBM employees being laid off in North America now have an alternative to joining the growing ranks of the unemployed – work for the company abroad.
Big Blue is offering its outgoing workers in the United States and Canada a chance to take an IBM job in India, Nigeria, Russia or other countries.
Through a program dubbed Project Match, IBM will help interested workers whose jobs are on the chopping block to “identify potential opportunities in growth markets and facilitate consideration by hiring managers in those markets,” according to an internal company document obtained by CNN.
The company also will help with moving costs and provide visa assistance, it says.
Other countries with IBM opportunities include Argentina, Brazil, China, Czech Republic, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Turkey, and United Arab Emirates, according to the document.
Only “satisfactory performers” who are “willing to work on local terms and conditions” should pursue the jobs, the document says.
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You know they are real serious when the postings are in Zimbabwe.
Itty Bitty Morons
Well, at least, a posting to the Czech Republic or Brazil for a number of years might be an interesting currency speculation play.
This sounds like a bad Dilbert cartoon.
“Good news, for all your loyal service you have a job… however its in Honduras. Hope your kids speak Spanish”
“Only “satisfactory performers” who are “willing to work on local terms and conditions” should pursue the jobs, the document says.”
Translation: When your boss, Ramachandran, wants some sexy time in the closet, you better be willing to take one for ‘ol Big Blue.
Argentina looks the pick – learning Spanish isn’t too hard and the steak is far better than in the US.
This was a PR piece. IBM wants you to think they’re getting paid US wages in India (which actually would be a raise.)
Although I can tell you IBM has been an independent contractor/commission only operation for a long time now.
People think of it as some stand-out company, but it’s all about outsourcing, temporary visas, contracting yada yada yada.
IBM’s image is running on fumes.
To be fair, it’s not correct to call all those countries “third world countries”.
The United Arab Emirates is among the richest countries in the world and Slovenia has a higher GDP/capita (PPP) than for example New Zeeland. These are first world countries. The Czech Republic and Hungary are also first world countries these days.
While some countries in the list are certainly emerging economies, barely any qualify for third world status.
In fact, you could argue, and many would, that it’s both ignorant, arrogant and typically american to throw around the third world label at developed countries with prosperous economies.
I largely agree with Anon 6:38. I have work with people on both sides of the IBM outsourcing machine. IBM is not the company it once was, and to consider it a philosophical bell weather of the US tech sector would be wrong.
That being said, opposing outsourcing is another form of protectionism, as both are trying to distort incentives to impact labor utilization by country. It is suicide for a manufacturer or an end-customer service organization to pay above global market wages. Globalization is disruptive, as was the switch from agrarian economies 100 years ago(Make tractors illegal, and unemployment will drop.)
A case can be made that globalization might be net negative or is happening too quickly. You can also make a case that IBM PR machine screwed up. (“IBM decides to give Oliver a second bowl of mush for his birthday!!”).
But saying that a 57 year old didn’t have tenure due to outsourcing is not new information. I may live in a relative ivory tower, but I don’t feel particularly secure either, so I work hard to remain relevant.
I fear protectionism more than I fear the disruptions of globalization.
Yves,
the other point you made about companies paying perks to ex-patriots abroad is still is occuring, but is less common. There were studies circulating a few years ago that the cost of an expat was higher than people realized, and so there has been more scrutiny.
However, if there is a needed skill set that cannot be found locally, there are plenty getting offered this gravy train. However there are fewer and fewer specialities that cannot be found locally. Virtually every country sent a portion of their brightest students to study and work in the US. Many built their careers and returned home and started companies locally.
Taiwanese businessmen and engineers were paid a premium to go to the mainland and work in a continuation of this trend. But now the mainland is building up its own base of skilled people.
If we close the gates now, we will be locking ourselve in, rather than locking them out.
Anon @ 7:00, clearly you haven’t spent much time in India outside of the Bangalore office parks. Try a week in Bihar and then come back and tell us how Americans don’t understand how modern India is.
IBM needs to be nationalized along with the banks. They certainly should be prohibited from selling their foreign-made goods in the American economy (such as it is, or is about to become!) – at least with the current trade policies in place. Those need to be scrapped. Morning in America, as in “renewal”.
bg said-
“That being said, opposing outsourcing is another form of protectionism, as both are trying to distort incentives to impact labor utilization by country.”
So if a country isn’t its citizens, what is it? Your reflexive- ‘protectionism is bad for the country’ is tired. Sounds like ‘free markets are good’.
You’re soon going to meet many people soon who
1. Have no job
2. Have no food
3. Have no place to live
Can you give it to them?
“Your reflexive- ‘protectionism is bad for the country’ is tired.”
Anon 7:26,
Thanks for your passionate response! I agree we have serious problems with jobs, hunger and housing in the US, and even more abroad. I am not hostile to that, and know that people have plenty of growing worries.
I think I reflexively, and perhaps incorrectly, read the history of the great depression as showing that protectionism harmed the people it was intended to help.
Let’s not be afraid of the Great Depression. Saying “this could turn out like the GD.” should not itself be a reason to avoid a given policy.
This one might be worse. People weren’t so far in debt then, and there wasn’t abundant, good, cheaper foreign manufacture. We had much less of a structural problem then than we do now.
Yves,
Could it be that UK’s meltdown is on the calendar for next month?
If it is so, has the IMF and others been tipped off?
Look at this little tidbit:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/court_and_social/article5679715.ece
February 7, 2009
Queen cancels state visit to Dubai and Abu Dhabi
—————–
There are very few reasons for such a event to be canceled.
If it is due to bilateral / multilateral reasons, it implies a big rupture is coming.
If it is due to domestic UK issues, it implies something extremely big.
I think this is the endgame.
D
1. Anon 7:22 is IMO correct. In the major city where our partner co in India was, camels mixed in the roadway with autos, with cattle hanging around everywhere; the main road to the factory was in horrible condition; and in any case, we had to scrap the deal w the counterparty due to non-performance.
2. I have bashed IBM in my blog for how badly it treats its employees- remember when they fiddled with its pension plan down to help earnings?
3. IBM also uses every accounting trick to goose earnings. Take a look at its goodwill and intangibles. There is very little tangible book value.
This differs from HP.
One of these days, IBM’s stock could implode. Could HP’s push into services following the EDS acquisition, plus the global recession, be the spark?
Maybe it makes sense for IBM to start this move *because* the U.S. is a becoming banana republic. Half or more of the countries on that list have more sane economic management than the U.S. And if present trends continue (toward greater nationalization of the economy, more burdensome public debt, protectionism, and a Fed and Treasury with even fewer limits on their power), that *entire* list could be filled with places more suited to doing business than the U.S.
Populist idiots will bid IBM “good riddance,” but precious few will start any new businesses in their stead.
I don't understand why some folks still label IBM as an American business company … IBM has more staff, office, r&d stretching worldwide so IBM as a truely global business acts accordingly and move assets, resources to stay competitive and deliver strong dividends to its shareholders. That 's how capitalism works right?
“I think I reflexively, and perhaps incorrectly, read the history of the great depression as showing that protectionism harmed the people it was intended to help.”
bg, protectionism can help or hurt any particular nation depending on how and when it’s used. China’s been using(as Japan before it, and the US back in the 20’s) protectionism from competitors through financial mercantilism… yet few have called the spade the spade.
Today, it’s to the US’ advantage to start a protectionist trade war since it’s not making a lot of tradeables anyway. We did that with Japan with the “voluntary quotas” and the plaza accord(which Japan has never recovered from and which China has studied in depth)
The US needs commodities, particularly energy…do not start a trade war with those partners! You protect against those that make the manufactured crap(asia and Germany)
That crap can be manufactured domestically which creates domestic jobs during a serious job shortage recession(current fiasco)
Geithner’s recent jab at China points to the possibility that the WH understands the trade dilemma.
What I want to know is …did the U.S. Tax Code affect this decision by IBM. Also, is IBM favored currently by the Tax Code.
Is IBM getting favored H-1B visas?
I think most of you are missing the point. Follow the money. IBM is a soul less, white great shark just looking for… well, sharkbait.
If U.S. workers end up in its sights, then don’t expect compassion (or even a sense of fairness). Cold,unfeeling, great,white shark.
I think the political treatment of IBM by the U.S. government should be equally ruthless.
If IBM isn’t an asset to America anymore then they should be treated as such.
Finally, folks…I urge you.
Think about replacing long standing Congressmen. They’ve been irrevocably tainted by Corporate money. We need term limits and public financing because our “representatives” in reality are minions of monied interests.
It’s fascinating how depressions always coax the protectionists and economic warriors out of the woodwork. It’s as though they feed on fear and mistrust.
I think the political treatment of IBM by the U.S. government should be equally ruthless.
If IBM isn’t an asset to America anymore then they should be treated as such.
That this kind of rhetoric is gaining steam in the U.S. is another excellent reason for them to pursue international diversification as a form of self-defense against the "loot & pillage" crowd here at home.
You know, this outsourcing is a great idea. We should outsource our kids and our elderly population too. Let’s just move them all to some less developed country, (opps, I meant to say Emerging Market) and all our costs would drop like a stone. Hey, lets add the homeless and the unemployed. Then we could reduce government spending and even corporate health care and pension expenses as these are adjusted for the lower cost of living in these exotic locations. The locals would be delighted with the influx of fresh dollars and jobs servicing their new middle class. But why stop there? How about if we outsource all American employees, ala IBM?! Think of it, all of us living in warm vacation spots, satisfied by our lower yet relatively high salaries and making new friends. No need to move south for a less expensive and warmer place to retire. We will all already be there.
OBAMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQriZQbTcjk
What happened your blog Yves?
Too close to the Democrats?
Where's the outrage Yves?
Another Trillion?
Who cares?
The Democrats are in power.
That's all that counts?
Police & Theives Yves. Do you know the difference?
artichoke:
The debt bubble that caused so many problems in 1929 was the carry along debt bubble left over from WW1.
If you replace today’s wage arbitrage caused by the opening up of China to the “capitalist” economies with the huge manufacturing advances made by mass production factories in the 1920s…
which turned the inherently inflationary ramp up of business at the peak of a normal business cycle into a near deflationary wage arbitrated drop in common prices, but a huge inflation in commodities and stocks (aka a bubble).
And then let it run for awhile.
It starts looking a lot like 1930.
But Bernanke and Company think it is OK because the mistakes of 1930 were all about trying to stay on the gold standard: not some huge imploding collapsing bubble.
Abbot,
I gather you don’t read the blog regularly, but just show up here occasionally to throw brickbats. I’ve been regularly savaging Geithner and Obama has also gotten the occasional swipe. You obviously did not read my Wednesday posts, for instance.
I welcome criticism and opposing views that are grounded in fact and logic, but broadsides that bear no relation to what I have written are not welcome. Keeping this sort of thing up is sure to get your comments deleted.
1- Fire people in the US.
2- Ship jobs overseas.
3- Produce cheaper stuff.
4- Sell cheaper stuff back in the US to those that have not been fired yet.
5- Keep doing it until the demand starts to drop because too many people lost their jobs and because companies are increasingly stingy as more and more people fight for lower and lower salaries and working conditions.
6- Panic due to growing debt and vaporized profits.
7- Ask the US government for bailout money from the people you fired.
8- Pray that another market will rise elsewhere to make up for the lack of demand before the US gov can’t give you any more money and you end up in the street, having lunch in dark back alleys around flaming drums with your former employees.
That be Robert Ruban strong dollar policy which started this outsourcing, McJob, cheap import due to overseas slave labor, china vendor finnaced crap in action.
It is funny how the phony good times brought about by the poor banking decisions and easy money brought out the ‘free traders’ in spades.
I am sure these free market types were crowing about how great the unregulated banking system was just 12 months ago.
They really think they know what they are talking about, but they actually have no idea.
The "new" TARP plan:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/07/business/economy/07bailout.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
D.O.A.
I am shocked, shocked!
But I think the ‘I’ in IBM does stand for international.
Today, it’s to the US’ advantage to start a protectionist trade war since it’s not making a lot of tradeables anyway. We did that with Japan with the “voluntary quotas” and the plaza accord(which Japan has never recovered from and which China has studied in depth)
The Plaza Accord has been forgotten to some extent but there’s good reason to believe it’s the root of Japan’s collapse. And they have had a collapse.
A big difference between China and Japan is the internal market potential is much greater in China . Japan had to save the U.S. in order to keep exporting its excess production.
purple,
The Japanese also had a major debt party. Banks would lend 100% against the value of urban land (pretty much no value was attributed to buildings, and they has NO notion of cash flow based lending. It was all collateral based). And the land almost never traded (no joke, for a company to sell land would be an admission it was going bankrupt, plus the taxes were punitive).
Anon at 7:22:
That India (and few other) countries on the list is emerging economy with all that implies is no reason to throw them in the same bag.
To trow (say) India and Romania in the same bag as (say) Czech Republic and Slovenia is a sign of the foreign-countries colour blindness that non-Americans so often ascribe to Americans.
That said, it doesn’t stop amazing me to see (usually americans) “westerners” to be amazed that somewhere so backward as central europe manages to have a car that is not of Soviet manufacture and less than 10 years old, an automatic washing machine and a color LCD TV.
On the other hand, you do get the occasional “easterner” amazed by the fact that not all Americans or Britons have an three acre-section house with a servant wing, don’t own a factory or two (or at least McDonald’s franchise), and that they are not all alumni of Ivy League or at least Oxbridge.
«You know, this outsourcing is a great idea. We should outsource our kids and our elderly population too. Let’s just move them all to some less developed country, (opps, I meant to say Emerging Market) and all our costs would drop like a stone. Hey, lets add the homeless and the unemployed.»
Well, that’s exactly the plan — except that for reasons of efficiency there will be no physical move, the “less developed country” will come to you :-).
You know, the sooner these piece of s**t big corporations either move out of the US or just go belly up, the better off everybody will be. Only then American small businesses will have a level playing field and a fair fighting chance, and our political system will not be corrupted by their lobbies, bribes and demands for bailouts. We’ll be a nation of small business and we’ll be just fine. And that goes for these mammoth insolvent banks as well.
And, one more thing. I say let’s all boycott IBM’s foreign-made products and services. Let’s all call the local representatives to make sure that “Made in America” provision stays in this stimulus bill. Let morons like IBM sell their products ONLY in these developing markets they so love, AT LOCAL PRICES. How about 100 Indian rupees ($2) for a desktop and 5000 rupees ($100) for a mainframe computer? Sounds fair, eh?
Vinny Goldberg
Please note that older IBM employees had the chance to stick with the defined benefit retirement plan. Under that plan one could retire with full health benefits until medicare age subject to having completed as i recall, 25 years of service. One thing the IBM bashers may be missing is
the fact that this offer probably also allows eg a 57 yr old employee the chance to bridge a few more years to full retirement with medical care, and also even if the local pay rates are low, adding years of service probably also adds proportionally more to the retirement benefit because it is a multiplier on the average paycheck including the fat years of
employment in the US. Bottom line is that the bashers probably totally miss the point of this offer – it’s probably largely about letting older workers reach full
retirement benefits when they are close. In any case complaining about IT outsourcing now is trying to close the barn door when the cows is already in the next country.
One more thing. I remember, when I used to run my own small software business, how these morons called IBM took a beating from a then small, unknown startup called Microsoft. I remember IBM’s stupid moves (all failed) with that worthless PC-DOS (vs. Microsoft’s MS-DOS), that proprietary piece of garbage called PS/2, as well as their dependence on 1960s-built lame-powered mainframes. And, then, lest we forget, not too long ago they sold off their only dignified unit, the desktop business, to a Chinese company. Right now they’re all a bunch of outdated, geriatric, low-tech, irrelevant imbeciles. Pretty soon they’ll be begging for a bailout from the Indian government.
The new “IBM” acronym = Indian BullSh*t Morons
Vinny Goldberg, In-Sourcing Promoter Emeritus
The United Arab Emirates is among the richest countries in the world and Slovenia has a higher GDP/capita (PPP) than for example New Zeeland. These are first world countries. The Czech Republic and Hungary are also first world countries these days.
Really? I was in Hungary last month. It’s still a piece of third world like the rest of Eastern Europe. One only needs to drive to the outskirts of Budapest and marvel at the packs of stray dogs running wild in the street, knee-deep filth, and dirt roads. Most countryside has no running water, and depends on subsistent medieval-style agriculture. Its political system is as corrupt as anywhere else in Africa of the Third World (recall the recent Hungarian riots related to this topic). And, lest we forget, the mighty Hungarian Forint currency collapsed last year, and needed to be bailed out by the EU and the IMF. I suggest you check out Hungary’s other major cities such as Szeged in the south-east, and you’ll have the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to admire Gypsies and Hungarians alike traveling in 12th century horse and buggy vehicles.
Sorry, but entry into the First World club generally requires more than cleaning up the route from Budapest Airport to the center of town where 99.99% of tourists spend their First World currency.
The Czech Republic is not too far ahead Hungary.
As far as the UAE goes, they built a few cities on the backs of mistreated foreign laborers, all of it with easy oil money. Once that oil runs out, or we stop buying it, they’ll revert back to being the best sand vagabonds they’ve always been. And, let al America-bashers not forget: while the UAE built a few First World malls and hotels, we, the US, built an entire First World continent – big difference.
Vinny Goldberg
To trow (say) India and Romania in the same bag as (say) Czech Republic and Slovenia is a sign of the foreign-countries colour blindness that non-Americans so often ascribe to Americans. That said, it doesn’t stop amazing me to see (usually americans) “westerners” to be amazed that somewhere so backward as central europe manages to have a car that is not of Soviet manufacture and less than 10 years old, an automatic washing machine and a color LCD TV.
Vlade,
I am an Eastern European-born American. I have lived in the US for over 20 years, but I also spend considerable time in various Eastern European countries, including those you mention. Additionally, I teach university graduate-level globalization and sociology courses. I think I am qualified to say what I say below:
Romania, Slovenia, and the Czech Republic are not First World nations. They lie somewhere close to the Second World status, if there is such a classification. It takes more than color LCD TVs and a non-Soviet-made car to be First World. It is, first of all, a matter of mentality. The nations you mentin are corrupt, near-feudal, Fanariot type peoples. Their countries lack a modern infrastructure, and the cities are, as I mentioned in my previous post, at the level American cities were in the 1920s.
As far as your comment about “Americans” stereotyping of (presumably) your part of the world, please do not forget that not everybody in America is like Al Bundy (a popular figure in Eastern Europe, I understand). There are also very intelligent people in the US, the best universities in the world are in the US, and Americans still publish more than the rest of the world combined (take a trip to your local bookstore, and investigate how many of the books there are simply translations of American books). Also, there are millions of Americans like me, who are TRULY bi-cultural. I think I understand you culture far better than you will ever understand America.
I know nowadays it is fashionable to be anti-American, and after 8 years of Bush that is understandable (clearly, most of America was anti-Bush as well). However, please understand that the US is a very complex nation, and a very successful model of multi-ethnic, multi-cultural existence. Unlike the Czech Republic, which is a largely homogeneous nation (if we ignore the viciously discriminated very large community of Czech Gypsies). Let’s not forget, Slovakia and the Czech Republic split based on ethnic lines. America somehow, despite your portrayal, has managed to remain together and a multi-cultural nation for a long time, far longer than most European nation, has managed not to kill hundreds of millions of peoples based on ethnic lines as this suddenly enlightened Europe has. Similarly, do not forget that many nations in Europe still have not renounced Fascism (Austria, Italy, Spain, Russia, and much of Eastern Europe). I can hardly call fascism a form of enlightenment.
In my honest opinion, this European “soft power” concept is a thin veneer hiding a tremendous amount of brutality ready to explode. The BS spewed out by EuroNews and other European media outlets eerily remind me of the BS I heard growing up behind the Iron Curtain. Europe continues to lie, usurp, and stew with anger. The only reason Europe has not started another world War during these past 60 years since the last one is primarily because Europe has been (and continues to be) American occupied territory (just look at how many US bases there are in Europe).
So enjoy your color TV, and new car while Germany is still peaceful and America can still keep you guys in check. But don’t worry, we’ll have another Marchall Plan ready for you again… :)
Oops… I forgot to sign my above message to Vlade, shedding light on numerous Easter European and American misconceptions.
I am the one and only, Vinny Goldberg.
@Anon 7:41:
After reading the tidbit about the Queen canceling her visit to Dubai, I talked with my Brother-in-law, who’s a Royal History buff and lives close to London UK.
It is indeed very unusual for the Queen to do such a thing. The explanation provided:
““We’ve never had a G20 summit in the middle of a state visit before,” the Palace said. “We just could not deliver both. We would be involved in G20 – there are 20 delegations, and we would be involved in hosting. It is a huge logistical task.”
is grade-AAA malarkey. The handlers of the Queen schedule are VERY good at what they do and there are several checks and controls to make sure that everything runs smoothly.
I concur with your assessment. Something’s up, and it most certainly has nothing to do with logistical problems.
Anybody comparing Hungary to New Zealand is out of their minds! There’s more to being a 1st world country than the airport! Try getting stopped for a traffic ticket in the country-side and THEN rank a country. Like almost EVERYTHING in life, to rank something you’ve got to throw out the abnormal highs and lows and see how the averages compare. The average peasant in New Zealand lives ALLOT better than in Hungary fer Christ’s sakes (and in the US for at matter, but that’s a different story).
Regarding IBM. I have mixed emotions on this. I’m a 55 yo IT guy (Unix, Perl, Dba, developer). I work for one of the zombie banks. Eventually I’ll be cut along with lots of other old farts and not-so-old dudes (and dudettes). Most of the peasantry I work with is in a highly confused state right now. Most are typical semi-fascist Republicans, but they still like to eat and now need to invent BS stories about how the government helping the banks somehow fits into their “survival of the fittest” philosophy of life. I’m enjoying watching these semi-psychotic humans squirm.
But, I still recall from my yut how I used to laugh at those “look for the union label” commercials and tell my friends what a bunch of losers the unions bums were. “Why don’t they get real jobs, stupid lazy bums!” (It didn’t help the some of them were not white – hey, I’m from Chicago after all – but I’ve outgrown that tho).
What comes `round goes `round. America is a land of self-loathing peasants. Always has been, always will be. Maybe all peasants are.
Just what is the IBM business model and its prospects? Is the news presented here a sign of management opportunism (merely an extraction of concessions at the right time) or is it a manifestation of the cost-cutting myopia that sets in at established companies that have lost the ability to build concensus, prioritize and act accordingly?
I’m too lazy and ignorant to do my own research.
IgnorantMike
Bytheway, maybe a new thread should be started to speculate on the implications of the Queen’s cancelled visit.
Vinny,
I’m half Czech, half Slovak, and I spent all of my adult life living in New Zealand (and I consider myself a Kiwi at least as much as anything else) or UK. So, please, do not patronise (as parts of your post do come across like that). I do visit CZ relatively frequently in the last few years, and most of my visits are outside turist traps ala Prague.
I could show you the same very poor villages in rural Italy, Greece, Spain or Portugal. I won’t include Germany, where east Germany is a special case. I could probably find large run-down slums or communities even in States, but I won’t go there as I don’t have a recent first hand experience.
The corruption levels of some of the countries above is at comparable levels too (this is comparing personal experience with experience of people doing local business in PIGS). The level of racism and other “nice features” is no worse than in Austria, Belgium, or, indeed Germany (except there it’s generally better hidden).
Indeed, calling CR or Slovenia a “near-feudal” seems a bit rich comming from a country where the voting district are regularly redrawn based on the political boundaries, and where a few families have been in political power for a better part of last few generations. But I shall bow to your superior knowledge of the local politics in all three countries. I will note thought that I’d much rather have His Serene Highness Price Karel Schwarzenberg as a foreign minister/secretary than Hillary, if we’re going for comparing feudals.
Unless you consider Anglo-Saxon + Nordic as the only first-world countries, I’d say that Czech Republic is no less first world country than is Spain, and Slovenia is no more second world country than is Greece.
I’d also like to call your attention to the fact that I said “put India and Romania in the same basket as CZ or Slovenia” If you want to say that CR or Slovenia has the same corruption, infrastructure, industrial base etc. as does Romania or India, then I doubt you have lived in either or tried to do business there. I’d like to call your attention to some minor details like that the levels of tuberculosis in CR/Slovenia are lower than in UK (on a per 100k basis, of course), infant and mother mortality rates are lower than in UK, US or, indeed, France (source: WHO), literacy is 99%+ (in fact, Slovenia is up there in the UN education index). I can’t compare UK healthcare firsthand with current CZ, but I’d say it’s not much better than it was in the socialist Czechoslovakia. As for the freedom – well, let’s say that UK has many more CCTVs than CZ had under STB, the travel is not restricted but the information is gathered in similar amounts, and, while CZ is by no means a truly free country for its citizens and a lot of communist laws unfortunately survive, I’m afraid UK is not that much better (especially when I compare both with New Zealand).
Re the CZ/SR split – let’s not forget that US almost split on the ethincity (albeit not the citizen ethincity) basis too 150 years ago, and that they still didn’t get over it entirely. I’d also call your attention to the fact that it was the only split in the post-com world that was without any violence. Even the Belgian split (should it eventuate) might be more violent, because at least in the CZ/SR split majority of the populace wasn’t really interested in the split.
I’m not sure why or how you take this to be an attack on America as such, although reading your post reminds me of reading some of the 19th century “reasons” why British Colonialism was soo good for their colonies, and how those savages could just learn from the enlightened British.
FYI, Marshall Plan was as good for US as it was for Europe, as it re-opened a large market for US companies, at a time where US companies were virtually the only ones that could meet the demand. So, yes, please, destroy your economy a bit further with a new “Marchall (or Obama) plan”, and Europe (Germany in particular) will be most pleased to make the old “what goes around, comes around” true (and CZ via Germany too)
Maybe if you define what it is that defines “a first world country”, and make it something else than “being US”, we can have a discussion.
I find it ridiculous that there is any discussion about this 57 year old lady going to India or Latin America.
So is her husband supposed to quit his job and move too?
Should she abandon her kids and maybe a sick, bed-ridden relative? Do we know anything about her circumstances?
Looking at Eastern Europe – most families have lived in the same homes for generations – it’s inconcievable that they would move their families to where the jobs are. Otherwise, what was the point of all their ancestors fighting and dieing for the land they’re living on now?
I also admire most Americans who can pack up and move across the country when they need to. That is truly a highly mobile society which has already made a huge sacrifice by never being able to put down deep roots… all in the name of corporate profits. But hey… they had to move because of their stomachs, not their wallets. There’s no shame in that.
And now, the expectation is that they have to move across the planet? Are you people insane? Have you lost all sense of what it means to be human? Have the corporations completely turned you into robots and slaves? To pack up and go where your master tells you because it will save em a couple of bucks?
If trying to save my humanity is the same as protectionism… then so be it. If you keep taking my humanity away from me, then at some point I have nothing left to lose. And then there will be a reckoning.
Globalism only promised that we would be EQUAL – not equally rich. As most are now starting to realize, in being equal with the third world, it means that we will need to be equally poor with the third world.
But for who? The corporations?
Gimme a break!