Various commenters have noticed that Mish’s blog has vanished.
My guess – a spurious “terms of service violation”. Google’s robot spam monitors sometimes screw up by giving false positives – something like this happened to Yves (see para 3) back when NC was on Blogger.
I can’t imagine they’ll shut up Mish for long and I expect we’ll hear what really happened soon enough.
*UPDATE* back up.
79 comments
Comments are closed.
Mish: if you’re reading a comment pls?
Mish’s site has been up all day.. it’s the dailybail site that’s down.
http://dailybail.com/
My service provider Squarespace was hit with a MASSIVE DDoS Attack last night…Knocked 30,000 websites offline for 4 hours, including mine…
All is better now.
looks up to me.
Working for me. Just got his post on RSS feed as well
Good riddance to him.
People are entitled to their opinions.
It’s a free country.
The only thing that bothers me about his blog is that readers’ comments are not displayed on the same page like they are here.
Here, you at least get the delusion that what you have to say is as interesting as the host’s.
“delusion is the strongest force on the planet”?
Go with a proven winner…go with the strongest force.
That’s how one can be a winner.
Well, that’s my delusion anyway.
I went to his site for the first time today and I see ads and links to gold bugs and Lew Rockwell. Austrians? No thanks.
Maybe Google had to change the oil. It is good to be missed. RN, Mish brings a lot of debates to the forefront. Like it or not, it isn’t right that public employees ride around in Cadillacs because they have the same in to government the bankers do and the rest of us eat slop. If these people are qualified to their pay, then it is no wonder the US is slipping, as the government is taking the talent. More likely is the talented people quit government and go to work for Goldman so they can tell Goldman how to bamboozle the idiots left. Now is the time to address this stuff, because the rest of us can’t write the checks. There are a variety of blogs, including Yves here who bring to light certain matters. The status quo isn’t going to work going forward. The national government of both parties is rubber stamping what I believe is organized crime in labor and banking. They are also dragging the US and its people down a hole and we have 2 choices, sober up or die drunk.
I am against public sector unions (for complex reasons and for other reasons, I am quite in favor of private sector unions).
That said, to suggest that Mish is coherent on this topic or that public sector employees are getting a crazy sweet deal (except for a few ridiculous outliers who loot the public purse) simply does not reflect reality. Your biases aside, the studies have consistently shown that public sector employees make less in salaries and more in benefits, but adjusted for experience, any difference in total compensation is not meaningfully tilted toward public employees.
Again, public sector unions do in fact cause distortions and I would get rid of them (especially because the government is held to higher due process standards as an employer and has much bigger agency problems than the private sector), but to suggest that the unions pose a meaningful problem for our society (and to scream and cry and whine about it mercilessly and without any semblance of sanity) not only exposes Mish as a fool but completely unable to differentiate the important problems from the other kind (which is, you know, kinda critical in the long run).
Thank you for posting that. I could not agree more. I can’t read Mish because of his constant vitriol towards unions. That and his rules for posting state that he would not tolerate racist posts, but clearly no one monitors the comments because bigotry flourishes there.
“That and his rules for posting state that he would not tolerate racist posts, but clearly no one monitors the comments because bigotry flourishes there.”
:Word:
I used to be a dedicated Mish reader, but his comment section really drove me away. If I want to read bigoted, racist, illiterate drivel I’ll hop over to Free Republic. When I want economics and finance news/opinion I want it free of partisan hysteria.
I still read Mish but no longer the comments. There are better places to look for ideas.
I’ve been reading Mish for years. Yeah, he’s down on public unions but he also repeatedly calls for the bankstas to be indicted. As for as bigotry his comment section doesn’t come close to some of the Bobos postings on Huffington Post.
I have no problems with Mr. Shedlock, but getting bullied around by the commenters there is getting old. Stand up and defend yourself, and then have these know-it-alls actually vote “bad karma” to you for doing so. I’ll blog elsewhere, but it doesn’t mean I want to see him shut down.
“bigotry flourishes there.”
It does? Really? Got any examples of flourishing?
‘studies have consistently shown that public sector employees make less in salaries and more in benefits, but adjusted for experience, any difference in total compensation is not meaningfully tilted toward public employees.’
-The famous anonymous studies (note the implication of numerous). References help credibility. Please provide references to back up your claim. That would help ensure your comments can be judged to be ‘coherent.’
I work as a government contractor in a staff augmentation role. I can tell you that in my area, government workers are paid much better than contractors performing similar work, and they rarely get laid off (contractors are stuck in a seemingly perpetual staff-up and layoff cycle, as budgets wax and wane). Openings in the government workforce are rare, and are typically filled by former contractors.
I’m a member of a public employee union and while one can debate the matter of compensation (I took a pay cut for this job), I have a serious issue with the fact that I am forced to join the union and my union dues fund partisan political activities. That’s taxpayer money siphoned off the top (of my paycheck) and utilized w/ little input from below. Of course the union brass would have you believe they are simply working in the interests of their members but if their members can’t withdraw their dues w/o quitting their job how much influence do you think they really have? GREAT funding source if your party has become the default recipient of that TaxCa$h.
Please look at the salary data of city and county employees on the California Controllers website and then tell me that public employees are not overpaid. And this data does not include their pensions and healthcare benefits which are many multiples of the private sector. Nor does it include data on their vacation time, hours worked per week, or much earlier retirement age all of which are vastly superior to that found in the private sector.
Go ahead pick any city or county you want. Then come back and tell us about the relatively lower salaries of public workers.
http://lgcr.sco.ca.gov/
I did and don’t see anything unusual in the salaries being paid (I’m an accountant in public practice with broad exposure to both public and private pay scales). Your statements about public employees working less hours, with better retirement and vacation benefits are just as badly misinformed. One reason for your mistaken perception are that public wages tend to be better in the lower pay grades because average pay rates aren’t inflated by obscene executive salaries – but certainly not enough to cause a typical worker to recoil in horror.
Time to face facts John, you’re getting screwed at work.
At least John provided a credible reference. What can you provide other than your ‘personal knowledge.’
I just got my oil changed today. So, first thing I thought to look at was automotive mechanic. Starting salary, without pension consideration is $55K. My oil change was $18.95. Material cost was at least $6. Add other overhead (lease, maintenance, taxes, etc.) and the business has available perhaps $8 for half an hour of labor. That’s $16 an hour. I think it would be reasonable to assume the poor guy under the car gets perhaps $10/hr. I don’t think public vs. private compares.
My brother is a mechanic.
Just so you know:
Mechanics do NOT in general change oil. Mechanics repair cars.
ever brought your car in to be fixed? did your bill reflect $16/hour labor? I didn’t think so.
anyway, I won’t chime in except to say that comparing getting your oil changed to a mechanic is like comparing a bank teller to a bond trader.
I won’t argue other than to say that you *assume* that it’s not the mechanic because that is not what the way your brother operates. I don’t know that is fair for the government service shop. Take your pick of a few others that I quickly picked. Also keep in mind this is only salary, without benefits. These are the minimum wages, not median.
Mail Room Supervisor – $42K
Print-On-Demand Operator – $44K (Copy machine operator??)
Call Center Coordinator – $63K
Fleet Services, Student Intern, Level III – $39K
jabre…
be careful as you sling the “assumption” hand grenade.
we both made assumptions
In general, a person hired as a county mechanic has more qualifications than a person who changes oil. This, according to you, is an assumption. Based on my experience with mechanics it is not a bad assumption. Based on common sense I think you’d agree
-do you really think the Valvoline oil changers on the corner make as much as the guys who fix your transmission? really? look at that bill closely again
-what do you think county mechanics do? do they just change oil? or do they keep the fleet running? hmm….
going back to your claim: that these guys in county make HUGE bucks… it would seem that many mechanics would clamor for that job. Thus, the county should have a good pick of mechanics. If they have a good pick of mechanic then, will they choose the no-skill oil changer or the “real” mechanic?
or do you honestly believe that the county pays WAY more for jobs, but they only take the least skilled people and that more skilled people don’t apply to that job… they just go make $10 changing your oil?
listen to your argument.
=====
as for your assumption:
You assumed what the salary was for a person who changed your oil based on your purchase price of $18.95. THEN you assumed that that person is the same educational and skill level of a county mechanic. This, based on my experience (and I think anybody with critical thinking skills) is a poor assumption.
You are correct, perhaps an ASE certified mechanic with years of experience chose to change your oil for $10/hour instead of becoming the county mechanic.
Then again, perhaps the county attorney changed your oil for $10/hour… or maybe Barack Obama changed your oil for $10/hour.
the point: anybody COULD have changed your oil. it is doubtful that a person with the skill level needed to become a county mechanic changed your oil making $10/hour.
later on you switched your argument.
I’ve heard the tired argument about how rich and awesome county workers are. as I said above, I’m not really interested in this argument and won’t say too much on it. I only wanted to point out that your argument had some major caveats to it.
if county workers are living so large, why don’t you go be one?
all that said: I think that SOME public employees are paid egregious amounts. Such as some California Firefighters who work for 20 years and then can retire by age 40 and take a pension for 40 years.
I also think that SOME private employees are paid egregious amounts, such as all the “consultants” I see in business, or the salaries made by our Financial Elite.
Wow, you’ve completely changed the point.
‘One reason for your mistaken perception are that public wages tend to be better in the lower pay grades because average pay rates aren’t inflated by obscene executive salaries – but certainly not enough to cause a typical worker to recoil in horror.’
*Minimum* salary for a mechanic is $55K per year plus benefits and retirement. Tax payers shouldn’t pay that much for anyone to change the oil, belts, filters, etc. regardless of their skill level. This *would* cause a typical worker to recoil in horror. Perhaps as you say experienced specialty mechanics are justifiably paid this much for a salary. But are they justified in their overall compensation when that salary is scaled up from starting and you consider retirements and benefits?
I never switched my argument. I just readily picked additional examples of (horrific :-)) *minimum* salaries that stood out in a 15 second cursory review of a random page selection in a document.
‘I also think that SOME private employees are paid egregious amounts, such as all the “consultants” I see in business, or the salaries made by our Financial Elite.’
Focusing on the few is an attempt at distraction from the structural problems.
– Overall compensation of public employees is a real issue. It’s not just the compensation of a few that are a threat to the solvency of several states.
– Lack of executive attention to the common shareholder is a real issue. The consultants are just one symptom.
– The overall financial system is a mess. There are years of valuable commentary on this blog demonstrating this issue. It isn’t just about the compensation of a few elite on wall street.
I am glad there is some institution putting a floor on salaries. I think the “outrage” at public sector salaries and benefits is basic envy. The private sector should step up and start treating their labor force as well.
I am still looking for the public sector employee who is receiving a $10 million bonus.
jabre:
My point is, and was, ONLY that
-there is a difference in skill level between an oil changer and a mechanic that likely would result in difference in pay scales between the two jobs.
That is all.
All the rest is you trying to do mental gymnastics proving otherwise, bringing in other job titles etc etc etc.
You have so many assumptions it’s not funny
you assume
-that the person changing your oil made $10/hr. (unsubstantiated)
-that the person changing your oil has the same skill level as an entry level county mechanic who makes $55k/year plus bennies (also unsubstantiated)
and now
-that the county mechanic is simply changing oil and belts, etc. (again, unsubstantiated).
I only highlighted that your oil changer vs county mechanic anecdote has serious flaws. nothing more, nothing less.
is your particular county mechanic overpaid? I have no idea.
Are your particular county personnel overpaid? I have no idea.
as I said in my first post, I care little about the public vs private salary argument. I am quite ambivalent about the subject.
in general, I think that the answer to the question “are public employees overpaid?” is “it depends”.
There are certainly some who I believe are overpaid. There are also others who I feel may be underpaid.
DSB,
i’ll chime in with my ‘opinion’.
public employees make far far more than private employees…..and it seems so at every level.
that’s why almost every person i talk with is trying to get a gig with the city, state, county, federal government……it’s the only game in town that has a decent wage and benefits.
just got word today, a electrician friend just got another pay reduction, they did this last year as well but this year isn’t as bad since they eliminated the 401K match and the health benefits last year.
and a pension? fuggedaboutit
The walmartinzation of america. Pay someone $10 an hour and see what happens.
How much, EXACTLY, would you have to be paid to work for the people that hold office in this country? A number, name it.
bob – that is a great question! Local fair market value wages. Is that Walmartinization or is it only what is fair to the people that have the burden of paying the wages?
Should government employment be an entitlement to additional charitable wages?
A great question which you fail to answer.
If walmart is the only game in town, as it is in many these days, they set the “Local fair market value wages”, although I cannot find anywhere that details what that number is.
Should government employment be an entitlement to additional charitable wages?
Yes, and they should also get a hooker and a line of blow per day to make it easier to deal with the both the public, who now think that they are “customers”, and the entitled politicians who are scheming for their private sector pay off after putting their time in at club muni.
The regular old civil servant has nothing to look forward to, no lucrative career raping and pillaging the people that they used to serve. In 2 or four years they get another new boss who has all the answers, just like you.
And as far as pensions go, lets take the odds on those pensions paying out in say…. California. You have the bond market versus civil servants, who are you gong to bet on?
If wal-mart is the only game in town and you don’t like it then move. Or, better yet, move and get an education. If you don’t like your new boss in the government then get another job. Guess what – we have to do that in the private sector too. Your representing government employees as victims. You have control of your destiny. I’m not saying it’s not hard. It sucks sometimes too. But, if you don’t like fair market wages change your fair market value.
On the pensions in California – the entitlements are unreasonable and unsustainable. You see you’ve got it all backwards – it’s civil servants for themselves at all costs against everyone else. We’ll just say it nicely – restructuring of debt will take place.
Again, a NUMBER.
Your political hack training is almost complete. Rather than actually answer a question you give the illusion of answering, then treat us to your wonderfully blind point of view which is based on what exactly? Save us the words and just say what you mean- These aren’t the droids you are looking for.
Let’s back all of the way up here, and start over.
What is the number? What would be required for you to work for the government, at any level.
Run away now.
Just to be clear, and conclude my argument-
If a public sector worker in California were to take the same pay as a private sector worker in California, the public sector worker would be making LESS money, based on your prediction of, we’ll just say it nicely, restructuring of debt. I call it lying cheating and stealing by politicians and bankers. Pundits like you are not allowed to go after your sponsors.
Benefits are a large percentage of total pay packages for public sector employees. If the expected payout of those future benefits is in question, a higher base pay package now would seem to make sense. Rational.
This also does not take into account the forced furloughs (4 days weeks), and the generally miserable working conditions while this whole, lets say it nicely again, restructuring of debt takes place.
There is also the whole other argument about public sector jobs that do not exist in the private sector. How many private sector coroner jobs are there? I know, you are working on changing that.
But, California has tons of Mexicans. Why don’t you go down to the corner, pick them up, and give them a ride to city hall. You would be saving us TONS of money. That would be rational.
‘I call it lying cheating and stealing by politicians ..’ – The politicians that tell you the lie that the benefits are sustainable are those that are sponsored by the public unions. They’ve bought they’re own liars. By the way, whose defending bankers on this blog?? Are you kidding me?
‘If a public sector worker in California were to take the same –pay– *compensation* as a private sector worker in California’ then the restructuring would not be necessary.
‘This also does not take into account the forced furloughs (4 days weeks)’ – cry me a river. Go talk to the folks in the private industry who took larger pay cuts without the time off.
jaber, guess what…politicians are your fellow citizens, you elect them and give them power over you. Sure take down the public, guess who’s is next on the menu…you.
This has nothing to do with any thing but raw power and whom decides humanity’s future. You are marinating in it, the divisive bull shit, made to order, to pit you against your fellows.
Skippy…Its just one big cannibal pot…Bon Appetit
@Bob – asking for a single number is absurd. It depends. If I get the chance to prosecute financial fraud, my number is $1. If I have to clean toilets for the US outpost on the tip of Alaska – $500,000. The question is impossible to answer without additional information. BTW, you then went on to suggest/imply that working for politicians was worse/harder then working in the private sector. I disagree. People are people – there are some good bosses and bad bosses everywhere you go. Part of the difference that is not being discussed is that government employees have incredible job stability/security.
As an anecdote, the local Sheriff’s union has decided to NOT voluntarily rescind 5% COLA raises, even though it will mean the reduction of 30 or so staffers.
I went to look at the site this moring PST time at 7am and the message was the Blog had been deleted. This was a Blogger site standard message.
The most successful Government employees understand that the trough is set up for corporations to gorge at.
Entire wings of agencies are controlled by everyone from General Dynamics to Lockheed Murder to a Pakistani Grifter/Delentante who knows how to hustle millions from the game. Everyone from Deputy Directors to the COTR can make a bundle by: doing business with exactly who they are told to, hiring and firing contractors without any overhead, incoveniences or labor laws that are usually observed in collective bargaining. The Government stooges read emails, go to meetings and behave themselves so that they enjoy the comforts of the good life:
summer/winter dacha, health insurance, nice houses. The Government ATM is highly lucrative for the favored contractors, the sole source pirates who become millionaires by hiring and firing disposable employees. Oh yes, at the very bottom of the graft, nepotism and whoring – there is some work, allegedly being done. I personally feel sorry for the low level 3rd class contractors who fight for their sheckles in political shit factories.
This is the most insightful post I’ve seen today.
Mish is a great writer and clearly a bright guy.
Which makes him even more useless. Because all he does is whine, and not offer anything constructive. His “solution” is basically to wipe away all regulation and govt. and turn us all into monkeys again.
I have little patience for people like Mish who arrogantly claim to know everything and trash everyone else, when they don’t offer remotely useful solutions themselves.
Sometimes, there are no solutions.
And sometimes there are. It is only electronic bookkeeping entries and UNJUST ones at that. Are we powerless to do anything about that?
I’m sure that a case that public service workers are overpaid can made but they aren’t the ones who wrecked the economy! The bankers did that.
Now, would it not be easier to reduce the wages of PSEs if a large chunk of their mortgage debt was forgiven? Or better yet, if every US adult was sent a huge check of new debt and interest free legal tender fiat combined with leverage restrictions on the banks to preclude serious inflation?
Debt forgiveness is Biblical. We ignore it at out peril particularly when that debt was ratcheted up by a government backed counterfeiting cartel, the banking system.
“Debt forgiveness is Biblical. We ignore it at out peril particularly when that debt was ratcheted up by a government backed counterfeiting cartel, the banking system.”
I hear these sentiments all the time. I have no particular issue with debt forgiveness (its called default) but the people ramping debt jubilee (especially Prof Steve Keen) never come up with an answer on how we cope with the fact that if you delete X amount of debt you have to delete X amount of somebody’s savings.
The reality is that all savings are going to be guaranteed because we have a culture which doesn’t do nominal losses which in turn implies that all debt is guaranteed by bernankes helicopter.
I have seen nothnig apart from some insane to and fro in the eurozone that leads one to expect any other outcome.
I have no particular issue with debt forgiveness (its called default) but the people ramping debt jubilee (especially Prof Steve Keen) never come up with an answer on how we cope with the fact that if you delete X amount of debt you have to delete X amount of somebody’s savings. Liminal Hack
Here me out, please. I don’t propose debt forgiveness, I propose a bailout of the entire population, debtors AND savers. Both were cheated by the counterfeiting cartel and both should be bailed out. Here’s how:
1) Have Congress impose a 100% reserve requiement on the banks. This would bve massively deflationary by itself since M1
I have no particular issue with debt forgiveness (its called default) but the people ramping debt jubilee (especially Prof Steve Keen) never come up with an answer on how we cope with the fact that if you delete X amount of debt you have to delete X amount of somebody’s savings. Liminal Hack
Here me out, please. I don’t propose debt forgiveness, I propose a bailout of the entire population, debtors AND savers. Both were cheated by the counterfeiting cartel and both should be bailed out. Here’s how:
1) Have Congress impose a 100% reserve requirement on the banks. This would be massively deflationary by itself since M1 would shrink to 0 (M0?) over time as debts were repaid.
2) Have the US Treasury send every American adult a check of new debt and interest free legal tender fiat (United States Notes) equal in total to M1.
Voila! Every American is on average debt free, the banking system is made whole and the cause of the problem, fractional reserve lending is eliminated.
After that, fundamental reform including separate government and private money supplies to allow optimum stability and growth.
Would this not reward holders of hard assets?
Consider:
Person A has house worth $1MM and no savings (Net worth $1MM)
Person B has no house and savings worth $1MM (Net worth $1MM)
Person C has house worth $1MM, mortgage of $1.5MM, and no savings (Net worth -.5MM)
Lets assume savings and debts are wiped out, and each person gets $1MM dollars.
Afterwords,
Person A has house worth $1MM + $1MM check (Net = $2MM)
Person B has no house, no savings, and $1MM check (Net = $1MM)
Person C has house worth $1MM, no debt, no savings, and check for $1MM (Net worth = $2MM)
Suddenly, the person who was saving to buy $1MM a house is the worst off, the with the $1MM house and no debt is better off, and the person hopelessly in debt is the best off.
What do you tell the person who was saving to buy a house who went from tied for best off to the worst off?
I don’t think you understood me. The US Treasury would just send every American adult an equal check, nothing would be done to existing debt other than that folks could pay it off if they wished and nothing would be done to savings either other than to add to them. So assuming a check of $1M:
Person A ends up with his house and $1M.
Person B ends up with $2M in savings.
Person C ends up with $.5 million in house equity
Who would pay? No one in nominal terms but in real terms the very wealthy would be less so in relative terms.
If you just credit Person C $1MM, then they are left $0.5 MM in debt. If, OTOH, you want to clear up C’s debt, you would have to give them $1.5 MM, which is more than the other two receive.
Thank you for explaining this.
From what I read, it’s a good plan. I like any proposal that (1) creates a Treasury Dollar, issued without debt and interest; (2) eliminates private fractional-reserve banking; and (3) I thought I saw somewhere in there a private competing currency (did I?) – that I am extrapolating can offer a check and balance against the government-issued one. And starting the system with issuance of the new currency to offer a debt-jubilee will offer citizens a chance to ‘start-over’.
Slaves are instructed to obey their masters. It’s Biblical, …or is that what you meant by debt being Biblical?
The Jews could have avoided the destruction of Jerusalem if they had only not reneged on their emancipation of Hebrew debt slaves:
“Therefore thus says the LORD, ‘You have not obeyed Me in proclaiming release each man to his brother and each man to his neighbor. Behold, I am proclaiming a release to you,’ declares the LORD, ‘to the sword, to the pestilence and to the famine; and I will make you a terror to all the kingdoms of the earth. from
Jerimiah 34:8-22
Bad link, once again
Jerimiah 34:8-22
One last time:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jerimiah 34:8-22&version=NASB
Mish’s RSS feed on my yahoo hasn’t worked for a while, but the site is working as of 3:38pm est today.
If you just credit Person C $1MM, then they are left $0.5 MM in debt. If, OTOH, you want to clear up C’s debt, you would have to give them $1.5 MM, which is more than the other two receive. externality
Since the Biblical penalty for theft is a repayment of from 2 – 7 times,then lets just make it $7M to A,B and C. That would leave C with no debt and $5.5M.
The bankers would scream “Zimbabwe!” but who else would complain? The entire population would be debt free and ready to spend. And there would be no more leverage games with a 100% reserve requirement.
Isn’t it about time? How old is this country and yet only 43% of the population own their homes free and clear?
Also, immigrants would suddenly be very popular as someone would still be needed to work while American sitizens were celebrating! See? Immigrants aren’t the problem, they are part of the solution.
@F. Beard
Thank you for explaining this.
i was going to write a response to the Non Government believers. More or less, “i just hope those people who recoil in horror at Government would move to the Sudan Rwanda, Rumania or Myanmar.” you know, “some place where the scourge of Government has been forever squashed from preying on people.”
But then, i realized why even go there. America is becoming more like Sudan, Rumania, Rwanda and those other Paragons of the “Free Market/Non Governmental Paradises.” a place where the efficiency of the Free Market rules, supreme, for all to see.
Silly me! it’s already here!!
Couldn’t disagree with your comment more. We do not have free markets or non-government paradises in our country. We have a rule of a massive government being controlled by the Military/Industrial Complex, mega-corporations, and financial services parasites. They have captured government and have created vast complexities that benefit only them with their teams of lobbyists and legal departments. 2000 page health care bills a free market? 2000 page financial services reform bills? Glass-Stegal was less than a 100 pages. This complexity is the anti-thesis of a free market.
Then going on to claim that people can’t rule themselves, and that somehow smaller government would devolve into anarchy is ironic in how little faith you place in the human nature (but yet somehow give this faith to government – which is made up of humans). How’s your big government doing for you now -having intentionally gutted the national manufacturing base, launched 2 useless ME wars, allowed TBTF banks and then bailed them out, in 1913 ‘sub-contracted’ the issuance of our own currency, etc., etc.?
The mere artifact of the corporate structure is a gift of the government. A truly free market would have no corporations.
I, for one, would rather place my faith in my fellow individuals and small communities to rule themselves, and to take care of one another. There already exists a vast non-profit social safety net. Americans have already proved that they will care for each other without government intervention.
You seem to be arguing that big government can be more compassionate than your fellow citizens. I disagree. The track record of government is far from compassionate…
Nonsense! Bankruptcy is part of the “solution”. Once you’re bankrupt, you can begin setting yourself to run the table again in the credit markets. Borrow all you want and then, Voila! declare another bankruptcy.
It used to be the domain of the racketeers, now it belongs to Joe Sixpack.
It used to be the domain of the racketeers, now it belongs to Joe Sixpack. Oliver South
“A fish rots from the head down”
Moral hazard: When everyone starts acting like bankers.
It’s only every 7 years, and it isn’t necessarily an escape from anything. Joe Sixpack will probably need to live on a couch, or in his car, but he might not even be able to keep that. The Banksters want to bring back debtors prisons, Chapter 7 sends the mafia on their way, and ends an abusive relationship.
Mish is a rightwingnut promoting all his right wing anti-union crap! He is all for beating down the masses so he can lay by the pool and clip coupons all day while drinking martinis served by blonde bimbos. Send his ass back to Canada where he belongs!
\\\\\\\
Mish is cool, he will eventually come to the right conclusions. The man does have a heart and though he shares the Austrian delusion that deflation is necessary, he would not eliminate Public service workers, just cut their wages and benefits.
Oliver South
“Stand up and defend yourself, and then have these know-it-alls actually vote “bad karma” to you for doing so.”
-1
:)
Enlighten me, please.
I do keep reading that “wages” in the US have not risen, or, when adjusted for inflation (remember that?), have actually been on the decline since the 1980’s. I am uncertain if this refers to average or median wages, or if this includes benefits (remember those?).
If this is correct, and also the observation that public sector wages/benefits have risen is correct, then the arithmetic would dictate that private sector wages have declined even more than is immediately obvious.
So, should our complaint here be, not that public sector wages/benefits are so high, enabling our town road workers, police, courthouse clerks, etc., to provide comfortable (not extravagant) lives for themselves and their families as well as support the local economy by buying food, cars and furniture, but that private sector wages have slid so abysmally over the past few decades that only by incurring unsustainable levels of debt have many workers felt they were able to “keep up”.
We’re a closed loop here. We use our wages to support the “small business people” that the Right is always holding up as the backbone of our country. We use our wages to pay taxes that keep our roads driveable, our courts and legal system working, our schools open. The cry to depress wages will only serve to shoot ourselves in the foot, economically speaking.
But I may be confused.
But I may be confused. Eclaire
Not to me. Either debt must be crammed down to allow wages and benefits to be cut to reflect the decreased amount and velocity of money in circulation OR new money must be put into circulation without a need to cut anything.
During the boom, wages/benefits AND DEBT were both ratcheted up. Either both should be cut or neither during this bust.
It’s always a cry against the working class, mainly. Granted here where I live, the city manager was driven out for making six figures, but they never talk about overpaid billionaires who sit on their asses and collect rent.
I thought I saw somewhere in there a private competing currency (did I?) – Trader Joe
Yep and not just one, any number of them. However, private monies would only be good for private debts not government ones such as taxes. Conversely, the government’s money (after the bailout) would only be legal tender for government debts.
This should satisfy everyone, I think.
Satisfies me! Competing currencies would allow Free Men and Women to choose their preferred manner of storing their excess savings and productivity and those currencies that were the most stable over time would become favored.
Yep. And in theory, genuine capitalism should out compete fascism too.
My wife runs a small city government for a living. The local county is bankrupt, and instead of filing BK, they are just doing a power down, releasing employees from each department as their funding dries up.
The city my wife runs is the county seat. Her HR department is flooded with applications from the county former employee’s trying to find a new job. The only problem is that the average employee of the county makes more money that the highest paid employee of the city (my wife) is paid.
She is finding people expecting to make 20% more than she does at the equiv job in the city, when she tells them what the job pays, they *shocked* at how low she pays people, including herself.
The difference is that the city my wife runs has a balanced budget, it has cash reserves of 100% or more in line items, and is hiring instead of firing.
When you have a county that pays its average employee more than the city it sits in pays its highest paid employee, you have an out of control government.
By the way, the county is laying off people everywhere, but those staying are still getting RAISES… oh, and the county is firing the people who actually work, verses the middle management that has no clue how to do the job their employees perform.
All Chiefs and no Indians…
I talked to Mish a few times. He is a bright, articulate and well-mannered person. He was one of the few that saw the financial disaster coming and had the balls to write about it years before it came to fruition. Yes, his solutions range from impractical to completely radical,the comments section is useless and he has a tendency to whinge and whine, but his observations are generally spot on.
The world could use a few more Mish’s given the drivel that is produced by the MSM.