2:00PM Water Cooler 5/19/2017

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1. fresno dan May 19, 2017 at 2:08 pm

   “Harkin: O-Care Should Have Been Single-Payer But ‘We Blew It’” [Talking Points Memo (2014)].

   http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/12/obama-obamacare-and-single-payer/

   It is a remarkable thing how much lying pervades every single thing in the US
   1. Pat May 19, 2017 at 2:26 pm

      I don’t even have to read the article to know there is nothing there that will convince the idiots who still think Obama was admirable. They will immediately go “alternative history”. I know because they still try to pull that one on me when I point out that the Public Option was in the House bill and could have been passed with Reconciliation same as the final version of ACA but Obama had already promised the Big Three that no such thing would happen regarding health care and insurance in America. They just get quiet when I start spouting facts and vote counts.
      1. katiebird May 19, 2017 at 2:38 pm

         Or insist on the lie that there were never 60 votes in the Senate.

         Or the lie that Obama was helpless without those 60 votes: Obama NEVER went to the Capital to twist arms — vote for HR 676 you MF or I’ll hold up every appropriation for your state/district till you change your mind — or something. The President has a lot of power. But as far as I know the only arm that got twisted was Dennis Kucinich’s
         1. jo6pac May 19, 2017 at 3:21 pm

            Yes, if obomber would have channeled LBJ it would have happened in the first week
            1. ambrit May 19, 2017 at 8:19 pm

               That’s predicated on the illusion that the “O” man was a Democrat. (If he had channeled LBJ, he probably would have entered a fugue state and still be there today. I can hear the dissonant chords of the opening crescendo now; “Fugue in Dem. Minor.”)
         2. MyLessThanPrimeBeef May 19, 2017 at 3:31 pm

            People don’t mention Kucinich as often. He’s one of the very few to speak up against the current Russia hysteria, when other ‘progressives’ are either silent or falling for it.
            1. katiebird May 19, 2017 at 3:39 pm

               I know, I like him a lot. His treatment was terrible.
               1. Annotherone May 19, 2017 at 3:51 pm

                  Indeed! He’s too good for this nation! The people of the USA simply do not recognise a good thing when it’s right in front of them. He was ridiculed and denigrated, back in 2004 when campaigning for the presidency. I felt thoroughly disgusted by his treatment. Bernie, at least did better with the general public, if not the DNC.
               2. IowanX May 19, 2017 at 5:28 pm

                  Kucinich got the Bernie treatment before we quite understood who the D’s really are. A canary in the coal mine, if you will. “A wonderfully clarifying election” ~ Lambert
                  1. Mark Anderlik May 20, 2017 at 11:11 am

                     100+
            2. HopeLB May 19, 2017 at 4:25 pm

               Funny how so often, Kucinich and Ron Paul were the few dissenting voices.
         3. Arizona Slim May 19, 2017 at 4:27 pm

            If Obama had twisted arms like, say, LBJ, we’d be wrapping up our first decade under a single payer system.
            1. Mark Anderlik May 20, 2017 at 11:19 am

               I think this is more wishful thinking than anything. It’s the public option that we might of had for the last decade. And those of us working for this on the ground hoped that the ACA with the public option would help set up the argument for single payer. Even without the public option, we are now seeing a much stronger movement for single payer health than there was before the ACA.
               1. marym May 20, 2017 at 11:58 am

                  It’s retroactive wishful thinking to imagine that not making the case and doing the political work for something good, supported by decades of polling, and sorely needed, is a good way to get it.

                  It’s incredible that after all these years, the coming to pass of all the predicted ACA problems, and its vulnerability, that defenders are still making this excuse.
                  1. Mark Anderlik May 20, 2017 at 6:14 pm

                     I don’t know about you, but I have worked on organizing health care insurance reform since before Bill Clinton was President. I was advocating for single payer back then and do so (with just a few quibbles) today.

                     Perhaps your memory of organizing for health care is different than mine, so I would appreciate hearing how single payer was close to becoming a political reality when Obama was elected.

                     The campaigns for hc change we were organizing BEFORE Obama was first elected were difficult to say the least. As I recall most of the thousands of ordinary Montanans we spoke with then and until the ACA was passed were skeptical of government intervention and of the ability to make change in any way. The ACA was not our first choice(or even third choice), but the ineptitude of the Clinton Admin on health care and the campaigning of the hc industry, limited what was possible.

                     Sorry for being so prickly but the work we on the organizing grassroots put in on the ACA clearly and intentionally laid the necessary foundation for single payer. Today I dare say single payer of some sort is a majority opinion in Montana. Or at least close.
                     1. marym May 20, 2017 at 7:14 pm

                        I don’t know if it would have been politically possible. I argue that Obama and the Democratic establishment chose not to try, despite the many factors that put them in a strong position to make the case to the public, influence reluctant Congresspersons, and get the job done.

                        They made that choice not because they thought a rube -goldberg expensive, inefficient, inadequate contrivance was what people wanted; or because there’s any evidence on this planet that it’s a way to provide affordable, universal healthcare. They made the choice because it’s what their donors wanted and because they believed, and continue to believe, that a few crumbs dropped from the neoliberal banquet of grift are good enough.

                        It’s interesting that you cite Montanans as objecting to government intervention, as I thought one of the good things the ACA did was to provide Medicare to the people of Libby, Montana.
                        1. Mark Anderlik May 20, 2017 at 9:38 pm

                           I agree with your assessment by and large.

                           However whether or not a single payer plan could pass was a critically important question for the short run at the time. What is often overlooked is that there was a huge organized grassroots effort to make even the crumbs from the neoliberals possible. Congress and the president would not likely have even accomplished what they did without this movement.

                           And now there is a new constituency to maintain and expand the ACA. Many people who are fed the neoliberal crumbs now are more confident that there is more bread on the table.

                           As for Libby, in Montana as elsewhere I suspect, there is a profound contradiction in attitudes about government action. The government is viewed with suspicion and disdain, until it comes with money. It is reflected in the attitude that I actually heard a woman say “keep the government hands off of my Medicare”
         4. Kim Kaufman May 19, 2017 at 4:27 pm

            Kucinich sold out. In return for his vote, the famous arm-twisting from Obama on Air Force 1, his wife got to sit on Michele Obama’s garden commission and some similar trifles.
            1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef May 19, 2017 at 5:52 pm

               Can we find any politicians who voted against Omabacare, but are speaking up against the current Russia hysteria?
            2. different clue May 19, 2017 at 6:35 pm

               Purists with no knowledge of political power and how it is exercised are quick to accuse whomever of selling out. How do we know what Kucinich was threatened with on that plane ride?

               ” Nice wife and daughters you got there Kucinich. Such a shame if something was to happen to them.”

               I wonder if
               somebody put
               a horse’s head
               in Dennis’s bed.
               1. Kim Kaufman May 19, 2017 at 8:16 pm

                  I didn’t say he was threatened. I said he changed his vote but got nothing of substance – for us the people – in exchange for it. I forgot the few things he got for himself and his wife now but I was told on very good authority.
         5. Procopius May 20, 2017 at 8:48 pm

            I can agree that the claim “there were never 60 votes in the Senate” is uncertain, it certainly is not a lie. The Democrats never had but 58 party members in the Senate, and that was after Franken was finally certified and before Ted Kennedy died. In normal times they should have been able to count on picking up at least one or two Republican votes to make up for the uncertainty of the vindictive, corrupt, loathsome Weepin’ Joe Lieberman, but the Republicans established a unity never before seen in history. Remember that through the whole process there were a number of Democrats who claimed they would not vote for it “unless …” Louisiana Purchase, anyone? I wish Obama had ignored Rahm Emanuel and tried for it, but he decided the risk was too great, and I think he had a better idea of where the votes were than Tom Harkin. Obama did a number of bad things, and I still think he’s the last moderate Republican, but I can’t be sure he was wrong on finally deciding to drop the Public Option.
      2. RUKidding May 19, 2017 at 3:53 pm

         Same experience here. The usual excuse I get is that the “Obama tried, but Republicans wouldn’t let it happen.” No, in fact, that’s not the case. It’s entirely possible that the Public Option would not have passed, although I think it stood a chance. That said, Obama went behind closed doors and made a deal (for himself) with the Big Three BigInsurance, and ACA is what we got stuck with.

         I’m really tired of Democratic voters diefying Obama and making excuses for him. At least try to live in reality most of the time, please.

         Please note: I used to be a Democrat, but I pretty much gave that up after Bill Clinton and the third way b.s., which basically means: We call ourselves “Democrats” (using their fingers as scare quotes), but we run things Just. Like. Republicans…. except we are a teensy tiny bit more liberalish.
      3. RepubAnon May 20, 2017 at 12:20 am

         One of those 60 “Democratic Party” votes was Joe Lieberman. Joe Lieberman personally spiked Medicare for All out of spite.
         1. bob May 20, 2017 at 2:36 am

            Spite AND representing his CT Insurance constituency.
         2. Pat May 20, 2017 at 6:55 am

            You mean McCain supporter Lieberman. There were pressure points that could have been put on him, like ousting him completely from various committees, including those he chaired. The Democratic leadership, *cough* Obama, chose not to do so.
   2. Darius May 19, 2017 at 2:35 pm

      Democrats like to whine that the Senate filibuster prevented them from passing better health legislation, conveniently omitting that Bush never got 60 Senate votes for his tax cuts. Republicans know to use budget reconciliation to get around the filibuster. They need only 50 votes plus Pence if they ever can agree on O-care repeal. Democrats act like they never heard of reconciliation to justify their inaction and strengthen their embrace of victimhood at the hands of the evil Republicans.
      1. RepubAnon May 20, 2017 at 12:23 am

         There’s rules to the reconciliation process. The big one is it must be revenue neutral, or reduce the deficit. Easy for folks who want to fund tax cuts by gutting the social safety net… but a bit harder for Democrats.
         1. Pat May 20, 2017 at 6:50 am

            And those tax cuts were revenue neutral, not. So put up some bull level numbers of some cuts that will be immediately reinstated and do what the Republicans have done – game that rule.

            If the owners had wanted it, even the Dems would have figured out a temporary revenue neutral… Oh wait they did with ACA as well.
   3. Carolinian May 19, 2017 at 2:46 pm

      My parents, country Baptists, were imperfect people but I can’t recall either of them ever telling a lie. Lying was considered a sin. While I’m not religious myself I do wonder if changes in the country’s religious landscape have had some effect on its ethics. It may be that an irrational or, if you will, faith based fear of doing wrong is necessary to counter our deep evolutionary instincts to be selfish and greedy and to say whatever is necessary to further those aims.

      Or not. But all the scoffing at organized religion–much of it justified–tends to ignore the degree to which religion once formed the basis for most of our citizens’ ethics. To be caught out in a lie was considered a disgrace. Now nobody seems to care unless, of course, your name is Trump and most of his supporters don’t care when he does it either.
      1. local to oakland May 19, 2017 at 3:42 pm

         Thanks for this. In addition to what you wrote, here is a thought. I don’t know whether it matters whether the ethic be rational or faith based, but there may be a developmental window in a child’s life in which it is important to teach and reinforce practical ethical norms to get responsible ethical adult citizens. In the US, public school and church both, I believe, worked at reinforcing such faith based norms until we became aggressively secular. Also too, so did the competing forms of religious schools created by Roman Catholics and Jews.

         Freedom from religious conformism at school is I think an important development in our tradition of constitutional rights. However, public schools in my limited experience do not treat ethics at all either theoretically or practically. If they do it comes from the initiative of individual teacher or principals. School rules are functional at best, arbitrary at worst, not touching any larger values. So school can become a Lord of the Flies type environment. And unless fortunate in their parental and other influences, many students graduate with an ad hoc ethic with large aspects of either go along to get along, or success at all costs. It seems to me that one part of child development includes a child absorbing ethical norms from their environment much as they do language. I don’t believe the public schools we have today have been designed or implemented with this in mind.

         Speaking more generally, as you probably already know, such concerns and complaints about declining traditional morals can also be found in Roman literature as the latin speaking elite struggled with the challenges inherent in becoming a polyglot, multicultural empire and bemoaned the lack of traditional virtue and pietas in their children. I wonder whether certain aspects of these challenges of multiculturalism and moral decline are inherent in the process of becoming a large and powerful empire. Both having power and lacking the experience of hardship or struggle shape character in ways that seem to make the development of virtue more difficult. Also, the personal encounter with competing forms of religion and ethics while broadening and fostering tolerance can also create doubt as to the truth, and the importance of any traditional form of religion, whatever it might happen to be.

         In short, I agree and I think this is an important issue.
         1. Carolinian May 19, 2017 at 4:31 pm

            Of course religion has formed the basis for endless misbehavior throughout history and as our society has changed so has religion (“prosperity gospel”). But as you say, teaching children to have a sense of right and wrong is not an arbitrary choice but is, in fact, an entirely rational activity for societies to pursue. Perhaps one reason our white collar crime laws are so weak is that it used to be assumed that wealthy people with a reputation to protect would avoid behavior that might lead to disgrace or accusations of dishonesty. Now it’s let the lawyers sort it out. Those who work the system may even boast about their cleverness.
            1. mk May 19, 2017 at 7:34 pm

               Think of the children attending Catholic churches and schools who are taught right and wrong and then are molested, raped, beaten by their teachers/priests/nuns.

               Not just Catholics, but they are a very good example.

               And this is not something that started happening recently, it’s been going on for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Not much change for this religion.
         2. Mo's Bike Shop May 19, 2017 at 8:46 pm

            Until sixth grade, I enjoyed a small village education where every teacher was thoroughly aware that you could be a Selectman in less that twenty years. Every suburban school I was in afterwards had heh-heh bullies totally gaming the system.
      2. Sue May 19, 2017 at 3:44 pm

         Believe me. I know many politicians at all levels who go to church every Sunday and a few hold a theology major. The more they have to win, the bigger their lies
         1. clarky90 May 19, 2017 at 6:48 pm

            I have learned to judge people by their actions, rather than what they say or their demeanor. When I worked in a wool scour (factory to wash the lanolin and poop out of the raw wool), we had a foreman who was an unfriendly, bossy prick (His nickname was “Little Stalin”). BUT, when things broke down or if we needed help, “Little Stalin” would dive right in and help us. We never had to ask.

            Forget about what a person says. How do they live?? How big (GINORMOUS or tiny?) is their carbon footprint? How well do they take care of their friends and family? How have their kids turned out? Are they kind to animals? Are they trustworthy? Do they practice what they preach (their life makes internal sense)? Do they take advantage of the weak? Do they wear a mask (fake)?

            The older I get, the less weight I place on what is said……

            If a notice orders you to, “Report to the town square with 10 kg of luggage. You, and your family are being transported “To the East (Poland) for a beneficial resettlement”,

            or “To the North (Siberia), for a beneficial resettlement”.

            And the notice is in the Main Stream Media, or from a Government Office,

            do you believe and comply? Or not?

            How do you judge?
            1. clinical wasteman May 20, 2017 at 2:15 am

               Saying — and writing — are types of doing. Sometimes worthless, but unlike, say, real estate brokerage or rugby, not always.
      3. Massinissa May 19, 2017 at 3:59 pm

         The problem IMO, is that most of the people today who say they are extremely devout are just as prone to lying or whatever other thing as anyone else. If they were to lead by example maybe atheism wouldn’t be quite so prominent today.
         1. local to oakland May 19, 2017 at 4:17 pm

            Certainly. There are a number of traditional proverbs, never mind scripture texts, that my grandparents would have known by heart, re difference between talk and action, re the relative trustworthiness of silent vs chattering people. By their fruits shall ye know them would be one biblical example. Still waters run deep would be another cultural teaching that is partially relevant to your point. I’m not remembering a more precise example.

            Simply adding a large dose of traditional folk proverbs, possibly from all influential US cultures, would be one positive step toward adding practical wisdom to the US school curriculum.

            Anyway, thanks everyone for indulging my rant.
            1. JTMcPhee May 20, 2017 at 4:20 pm

               “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” (sadomasochists excepted). There’s a fairly universal prescription for us.
      4. WeakendSquire May 19, 2017 at 4:26 pm

         It’s got to be more complex than that. Religion has changed, too, with the rise of mega churches and charismatic pastors with slimy ethics. Not to mention the outright hypocrisy of many Roman Catholic priests. In this environment I’m not sure it would make any difference if secular humanists suddenly got religion. ALL institutions are suffering from a legitimacy crisis, which is why they are resorting to more and more authoritarian measures to retain control over people who do not trust them.
         1. IowanX May 19, 2017 at 5:59 pm

            This is an interesting conversation, and I actually think it’s more important than people know. I’m going to hoist a link from this morning.

            I’ve run downtown-focused nonprofits for more years than I want to remember, in wealthy cities, poor cities, and small towns. I DO understand how culture has changed, but the causal arrows are hard to aim. As an Iowan, I know how much the Maytag family gave back to Newton, until they got bought out and Fred Maytag III started making beer in San Francisco instead of washers in Iowa.

            You can’t really participate in “Associations” if you don’t know if you can come to a meeting (or bowling night, or pool league, or book club, or Kiwanis, or prayer group, or whatever) on Tuesday evenings. Precariat employment prevents predictability, (and disposable cash). Predictability (availability to participate) and disposable cash (I can buy a round) is necessary for associations to form, build and grow. TBTB WANT us to be alienated from ANY kind of group action, (even if pool league is harmless fun).

            Ya can’t tell the good guys with pool cues from the bad guys with pool cues? Just a guess.
         2. Art Eclectic May 19, 2017 at 8:33 pm

            Religion is just another profit center and has been for hundreds of years. Ever been to the Vatican? It rivals Trump Tower for expensive display of garish wealth.

            Jesus would be appalled but he doesn’t live there anymore.
         3. JTFaraday May 25, 2017 at 11:50 pm

            A lot of it has also degenerated into tribal identification. And that’s about it.

            Sociologist Jonathan Haidt has been busy turning this into a(n evolutionary) virtue. But said virtue is basically competitive and hostile to outsiders, which doesn’t do much to keep the collective peace.
      5. HotFlash May 19, 2017 at 5:05 pm

         Odd, I was thinking this morning that if, say, Hillary actually believed in God and God’s justice, she would be a much different person. Ditto Obama.

         OK, perhaps what I really mean is not God’s justice, but God’s punishment, everlasting in Hell. Which I don’t believe in — I think we have the whole enchilada right here, and that is why we have to Do It Right This Time.

         But I wonder how some people who say they are Godly can behave so wickedly. God’s work?

         I am reminded of Robertson Davies‘ conclusion, “God is not the only answerer of prayer.”
      6. Huey Long May 19, 2017 at 5:36 pm

         Excellent post, hat tip to you Carolinian!

         I’ve been having thoughts on the demise of religion and its effects on society for quite some time now as well.

         I’ve come to the conclusion that religion has been supplanted by the mass media and modern scientific propaganda techniques as a means for social control.

         The first nail in the coffin for religion was the invention of the printing press. Folks were finally able to purchase and read the bible in their own language and no longer had to just take the priest’s word for it on Sunday. 200 years and many devastating wars later, the Catholic Church’s monopoly on God was but a memory.

         The second nail in the coffin was the industrial revolution. All the scientific advances that allowed this event to take place slowly eroded the credibility over time of the church, both Protestant and Catholic. The bible’s stories of creation, once widely regarded as fact were revealed to be nothing more than made up stories. Epidemics were no longer understood to be the wrath of God, but rather the wrath of tiny microbes and curable not by prayer but by man himself.

         The third and final nail in the coffin was the advent of mass media and Bernaysian propaganda. The invention of radio and television allowed governments and corporations to beam their message into every home in the land every day of the week.

         The Church, already divided into a thousand pieces and with its credibility in the dumpster never stood a chance; they only had their audience’s ear once a week on Sunday and were stuck with the same ancient propaganda messages written down long ago in the bible.

         On the other hand, the propagandists crafting the messages broadcast over radio and television had no such restrictions. Their slick, focus grouped propaganda was (and still is) free to appeal the most primal and brutal parts of human nature, and I think that’s where we lost our values.

         You can see these changes manifest in the relationship between governments and the church now vs the pre-printing press era. Prior to the advent of the printing press, the Church was a high ranking partner of the government that owned vast amounts of land, levied taxes, and even waged war on occasion.

         Nowadays, government-church collusion is forbidden in the west, and it is the mass media that is government’s social control handmaiden. Proto-propaganda in the form of pamphlets, posters, and whatnot had existed since the dawn of printing, however the mass media really “made their bones” so to speak during WW1 with Eddy Bernays’ Committee on Public Information.
         1. different clue May 19, 2017 at 6:43 pm

            If a religion-based ethic is necessary for long-term social survival, perhaps the general ethic behind the various different-in-detail Indian Nation religions should be studied? It led all its various practitioners to conduct an eco-positive onward-and-upward bio-friendly terraforming project over the milleniums on their lands up to the age of Western Intrusion.

            My working-operational world-view lives in the gray zone between these two Credal Poles.

            1: The God of Selection is a Callous God and Its first
            true prophet was Darwin.

            2: If Mama Corn ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy.
         2. AbateMagicThinking but Not money May 21, 2017 at 6:11 am

            Heuy Long & belief:

            Your analysis is good as far as I can see.

            Christian religion relied/relies on the devil as a tool to scare the lumpen bleepless. Now that the power-media has take over the role as scarer-in-chief, it seems to me that in the US at least, socialism is the great Devilish bogey-man.

            For me this is fascinating, as in my view money – especially fiat money, is first-order socialism. If people stop believing in money collectively (and even the Commies believe in money), capitalism as we know it is dead. No velocity of circulation, nada. I have come to wonder whether most elected representatives understand what money is. Seems one side of the ethical aisle is trying its best to kill money off – in ignorance* – by gaming the rules to the nth degree, and claiming that any brake on their activities is socialism.

            On the topic of gaming: the interesting things about the game Monopoly is that for it to function, and to get a winner, all of the players have to have some money. On monopoly being achieved, market collapse and Game-Over – circulation finished! But then, wowsers probably aren’t allowed to play Monopoly.

            Bleep Bleep! (formerly Pip Pip!)

            *I am not ruling out some arcane conspiracy, but I’m not putting any money on it. Ignorance is so much more plausible.
      7. XMidway May 21, 2017 at 3:27 pm

         Don’t know that lying was less prevalent in the past. Perhaps it was just easier to get away with than it has been for the last couple of decades. Interestingly, there is no “Thou shalt not Lie” commandment. “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” is as close as they come.

         You’re wrong, of course, that nobody seems to care … I’m nobody and I care.
      8. JTFaraday May 25, 2017 at 11:46 pm

         I think it does. I have no idea what formal institutional force exists today that will categorically tell young people X and Y are wrong. Do this, don’t do that, etc. I do see some efforts to encourage empathy, etc. But that’s mushy, subjective, and ideologically optional. (Akin to Adam Smith’s moral sentiments, perhaps, which I don’t find entirely convincing).

         The one ideology they are all socialized to, in common, is job prep and careerism.

         Help me.
   4. PhilM May 19, 2017 at 2:57 pm

      It is all lies. Everything.

      Every 13-year-old should hear this little talk. “All your life you have been told the importance of telling the truth. Like everything else you have been taught, except arithmetic, that was a lie, to influence your behavior for the convenience of your parents and teachers. As you grow older, you will see that telling the truth serves others; that is why they tell you to do it. If you observe what they do, not what they say, you will see that everyone around you is lying. And not just in the human world: all animal communication is merely a signal designed to influence behavior; each communication must be considered a manipulation, one to your disadvantage until proven otherwise. The sooner you learn to lie persuasively, the better off you will be.”

      But every child probably knows this already because they grew up with the internet. I come from a generation and a class where truth was thoroughly indoctrinated, to my enormous disadvantage in life.
      1. jo6pac May 19, 2017 at 5:44 pm

         LOL and agree with your last sentence.
      2. Gaianne May 19, 2017 at 9:36 pm

         And yet truth is required for the making of agreements.

         As truth evaporates from the West, Americans become not-agreement-capable, as the Russians put it.

         This is not quite the happy utopia you imagine.

         –Gaianne
   5. Jeff W May 19, 2017 at 6:24 pm

      It is a remarkable thing how much lying pervades every single thing in the US

      Benjamin Studebaker on “A Hierarchy of Lies and Falsehood” here.

      I used to say to my dad, who tells me what he heard on this cable news show or that talk radio that week, that it was really difficult to unravel and unpack the lies pervasive in the mainstream discourse but, actually, Ben Studebaker’s typology makes it a bit less difficult. (It’s still not easy.)
2. Huey Long May 19, 2017 at 2:39 pm

   RE: Arctic stronghold of world’s seeds flooded after permafrost melts

   Via Wikipedia:

   “Spitsbergen was considered ideal because it lacked tectonic activity and had permafrost, which aids preservation. Its being 130 metres (430 ft) above sea level will keep the site dry even if the ice caps melt.[9] Locally mined coal provides power for refrigeration units that further cool the seeds to the internationally recommended standard of −18 °C (−0.4 °F).[11] If the equipment fails, at least several weeks will elapse before the facility rises to the surrounding sandstone bedrock’s temperature of −3 °C (27 °F).[4″

   How’s that saying about plans and divine laughter go again?
   1. jrs May 19, 2017 at 3:41 pm

      there is no technocratic solution .. maybe seeds should be preserved by actually growing them like the slow food people say.
   2. Randy May 19, 2017 at 4:36 pm

      Over the years I have had the best luck and longevity(viability) of my stored seeds by storing them in my basement at ~50*F/30% humidity. I have tried storing in the freezer at 0*F with poor results. I successfully started 8 year old tomato seeds this year, 10 year old radish seeds last year. 30 years ago 3 year old frozen “beans” would not sprout but a friend started an 18 year old basement stored “bean” last year.

      Pea seeds seem to be the least amenable to storage.

      Anybody else have experience/observations to share about seed storage?
      1. Shane May 19, 2017 at 5:02 pm

         I’m an avid food gardener and I think the attitude that you can just freeze it all for now and worry about what to do with it later is a terrible strategy, as shown by the arctic vault flooding. Likewise the attitude that we can grow millions of acres of the same strain of a crop and stuff what little remains of the genetic diversity that used to exist into vaults and pull it out later if we need it.

         Crops need to be grown regularly to maintain not just the health of the crop, but also the volume of seed needed to grow it on a meaningful scale, and the skills required to handle each strain’s peculiarities. Putting all your eggs in one freezer is a recipe for failure. Modern crops are bred to be hyper-responsive to fertiliser and often irrigation, making them relatively indifferent to local geology and climate. If/when industrial agriculture fails the lack of access to locally adapted land-race staple crops is likely to make a return to subsistence agriculture an even more difficult process that it would otherwise be.
      2. lyman alpha blob May 19, 2017 at 6:17 pm

         I’ve found peas to be relatively easy to save too and will be trying some Marfax beans that I saved from last season this year.

         And a side note: evidently saving the seeds in the ground works too. I had tried planting some lettuce in one patch last year that would not grow no matter how many times I re-seeded it. We had very dry weather and by the end of the summer the patch was pretty much dust, despite repeatedly watering it. Did some edging around that patch yesterday to get the garden ready for planting and noticed little lettuce plants coming up all over the place.

         Sometimes it seems like all the work I put into my tiny garden is completely wasted and I’d be better off just throwing a bunch of seeds around the yard and see what comes up!
      3. different clue May 19, 2017 at 6:50 pm

         There must be a million gardeners in the US. Maybe 100,000 thousand of them are good gardeners. What if each one of those good gardeners each adopted ONE SPECIFIC temperate-zone variety of something to save? That would assure One Hundred Thousand varieties being saved and maintained.

         What’s another way to keep as many varieties saved and maintained as possible? Buying valuable and useful true-variety seed from seed companies qualified to maintain it for real and at quality year after year after year. And paying more to buy shinola food from shinola growers who pay more to shinola companies for shinola varieties of seed.

         Both approaches would help.
         1. ratefink May 19, 2017 at 10:38 pm

            well, Baker Heirloom has had some really fun and delicious ones that I’ve planted, and I’m really not much of a gardener. Also, they are always looking for locally preserved strains.
         2. Shane May 20, 2017 at 12:00 am

            This is a good idea but has a couple of complications. Firstly many crops are outcrossing (cucurbits, most grains) so each strain needs to be isolated from others to prevent unwanted crossing, plus require large populations to select next years seed from to maintain quality. Traditionally this was achieved by many neighboring farms growing the same basic strain each year, with crossing happening between farms. Most suburban farmers would struggle to grow a hundred pumpkin plants or influence what their neighbors grow. Secondly even for self pollinating crops (most legumes and solanums) accessing the genetic diversity that remains in the seed vaults is difficult. More difficult is figuring out which variety they should be ideally growing in their location. Even with seed vaults lots of genetic diversity has been lost, and just as importantly the know how about how to grow which crop where is also lost. If the industrialised nations ever had to return to subsistence agriculture it would be a rocky road for these reasons.
   3. different clue May 19, 2017 at 6:46 pm

      “locally mined coal” . . .

      That’s one for the Department of Irony Department.
   4. Optimader May 20, 2017 at 1:53 am

      Hope they put it all up in argon filled balljars!

      Scourge 2 will be the feast of the Arctic Mouse
3. Huey Long May 19, 2017 at 2:41 pm

   Real Estate: “Blackstone Group LP, the world’s biggest private equity fund, told investors to dial back their expectations for property returns as the “great run” of the past five years becomes harder to replicate”

   I guess they’re running out of retail chains with extensive real estate holdings to loot.
   1. loblolly May 19, 2017 at 2:54 pm

      I guess they’re running out of retail chains with extensive real estate holdings to loot.

      I thought they followed this up with property-less shell retail chains? Maybe manufacturers are tired of being left holding the bag.

      Now there is no one left to rent their abandoned big box sites.
4. Elizabeth Burton May 19, 2017 at 2:44 pm

   Ah, yes, we here in Austin will now once again be treated to the joy of having Uber and Lyft lie about the taxi industry now that the anti–big-government state legislature has passed a law that prohibits cities from demanding ride-sharing companies comply with the rules everyone else has to follow. Fortunately, my cab-driver husband’s taxi is a Dodge Caravan, so there’s room for us to live in it when he can no longer earn enough for the rent. I’ll just have to find a Starbuck’s to stake out to spend the day, I suppose.

   As for Paula Swearingen, Blue America, which rants on and on about how the DCCC and DSCC refuse to support progressive candidates, has refused to support her on the grounds that even if she beats Manchin she can’t beat a Republican. So, they’re going to raise money for the sure bets, and Ms. Paula will just have to do the best she can. They were also the ones who screamed “anti-abortion” when Bernie endorsed Heath Mello when, in fact, the man has done all he can, given his circumstances, to mitigate anti-abortion legislation.

   I’ve started telling people to ignore anything that looks like, sounds like, walks like or smells like a PAC and just give money directly to candidates.
   1. Jen May 20, 2017 at 4:52 am

      Oddly, I just tried that and my contribution was “flagged for review.”
      Hmm…..
5. Huey Long May 19, 2017 at 2:55 pm

   RE: Famously Free Press

   Commentariat, I propose we give the faceborg censors a Soviet nickname. I looked up “Censorship in the Soviet Union” and here’s what popped up:

   “Censorship in the Soviet Union was pervasive and strictly enforced.
   Censorship was performed in two main directions:

   State secrets were handled by the General Directorate for the Protection of State Secrets in the Press (also known as Glavlit), which was in charge of censoring all publications and broadcasting for state secrets.

   Censorship, in accordance with the official ideology and politics of the Communist Party was performed by several organizations:

   Goskomizdat censored all printed matter: fiction, poetry, etc.

   Goskino, in charge of cinema

   Gosteleradio, in charge of radio and television broadcasting

   The First Department in many agencies and institutions, such as the State Statistical Committee (Goskomstat), was responsible for assuring that state secrets and other sensitive information only reached authorized hands.”

   I vote for either Glavit, or Gosrunet, a portmanteau of Gos_____ and runet which is a popular term for the Russophone internet.
   1. HotFlash May 19, 2017 at 5:12 pm

      I’m thinking Goskomizdat, since by def, fake news is fiction. It may, on occassion, rise to poetry. Plus the word sounds like a cat coughing up a hairball.
      1. IowanX May 19, 2017 at 6:12 pm

         I never do this (comment much) but ya gotta use the GOS “portmanteau”…GOS also stands for “Great Orange Satan”–a nickname for Daily Kos.
         1. Biph May 19, 2017 at 6:22 pm

            That might work for something or someone else too.
   2. different clue May 19, 2017 at 6:53 pm

      Well . . . one would want to integrate the name Facebook into your Soviesque terminology . . . to make it memorable and viralizable.

      Maybe try words and names like this:

      Faceglavlit.
      Facekomizdat.
      Facekino.
      Facetelradio.
      and . . .
      The Faced Department.
6. LT May 19, 2017 at 3:16 pm

   Dispatches from The Bubble:

   http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/233794/the-future-of-media-is-here/

   Boston’s “third annual Content Marketing Conference, a sold-out, $1,250/ticket, four-day powwow for 300 marketing professionals flown in from San Fran and Toronto and other prosperous North American cities. They will sleep at the conference hotel in $349/night rooms with swanky waterfront views.”

   WiFi password “Superhero” – (not kidding!!)

   Some zingers:
   “Plastic cases on the chair seats contain hagiographic baseball cards for each Superhero speaker. Their faces are in Superhero green, Superhero names and Superpowers are on the back. The Digital Dynamo and Killer Content Girl both fight against a common enemy, Captain Crappy Content…”

   How did it get to this point?

   “Consumers and users are eager to be trained and educated, Handley tells the crowd. By creating content stories that fill this void, marketers are practicing “what I call pathological empathy. Which is next-level empathy. Not just ‘we understand you, we get you,’ but ‘we really get you.’” Handley pauses to let this sink in. “We’re not just walking around in your shoes—we’re walking around in your skin.”
   The S.W. considers that the void Handley speaks of is in part the result of journalism’s collapse. In the absence of stories told by humans to communicate about being human, companies tell people stories about being consumers. Readers consume the information made available to them in this way because they are unable to turn off the human impulse to understand the world…”
   1. HotFlash May 19, 2017 at 5:15 pm

      Don’t they have books or movies?
      1. LT May 19, 2017 at 6:02 pm

         Yes, indeed.
         But speaking of movies, I’m reminded of a flick from a few years ago “Sex Tape.”

         Most people thought the sexual innuendo was the point of the movie, but in between the lines of that premise was a couple, both with “new media content” types of jobs (the wife a blogger, the husband a type of music curator). But as they go around trying to keep their image from being tainted, it’s revealed how little they understand about “the internet of things.”
      2. jrs May 19, 2017 at 6:32 pm

         yes he’s not even on the right level of abstraction in thinking of journalism as “stories told by humans to communicate about being human”. Because it’s not really the human condition anyone wants to understand from journalism but rather social conditions (ok and journalism isn’t nor has it ever been sufficient all by itself for that really).
      3. craazyboy May 20, 2017 at 3:28 pm

         But apparently not The Whoopie Cushion. Hooray For The Whoopie Cushions!

         Truth, Justice, and the America Way…

         pfft, and you jump out a mirrored glass window, waving bye, bye to your Peter Pan Super Person image.
   2. Huey Long May 19, 2017 at 5:39 pm

      Wow, I’m REALLY glad I didn’t grow up to become a marketer. Those zingers are vomit worthy.
7. clinical wasteman May 19, 2017 at 3:20 pm

   Complete agreement re Apple products, especially the ever more tabletty Macbooks and downgrades — sorry, “up-” — of OSX towards the dismal condition of iOS. At least as far as people trapped into using those things tell me.
   But for the same reason I wish (without much hope) long life to the “stagnation” of the desktop hardware, specifically in the sense of accommodating “old” but not quite ancient operating systems and relatively insult/injury-free versions of the software running on them.
   1. PKMKII May 19, 2017 at 3:45 pm

      What, you don’t enjoy them porting over from iOS to the macbooks the feature of the device going into low battery auto-shutoff even though there’s more than 20% battery left?
   2. Big River Bandido May 19, 2017 at 3:53 pm

      As a musician and 25-year Mac user, I am sweating the future. My livelihood is dependent upon high-quality software, and powerful gear to run it.
      1. DJPS May 19, 2017 at 4:27 pm

         Build yourself a Hackintosh!

         I followed the instructions exactly as shown on tonymacx86.com and built a windows/hackintosh for $1k that apple wanted $8k for. They have Amazon prime links on tontmacx86 to the exact items you need to buy, so you could get it all tomorrow!

         A little daunting at first, but it just took a few hours in the end. It wasn’t that difficult to do in retrospect.
         1. WobblyTelomeres May 19, 2017 at 4:54 pm

            That looks pretty simple. Not much different at all from any old roll-your-own PC. Bookmarked if for friends that I can’t convince to run Linux.
            1. AbateMagicThinking but Not money May 21, 2017 at 10:06 am

               Puppy Linux (Slacko 6.3) here.
      2. Gaianne May 19, 2017 at 10:02 pm

         It is time to point out the strategic difference between Linux and and the five horsemen of the technocalypse:

         Linux has no strategic interest in forcing you to upgrade, nor a strategic interest in crapifying their software.

         In contrast, if you stay with Apple or Microsoft, whatever you are doing will be obsolete in five years, and their offerings to migrate to will be even less functional.

         Personal story: A friend who does recording (in a small way) just got locked out of his Pro-Tools sound studio. They want more money! I never read his terms-of-service, so I don’t know if they had a sleeper clause, or what. What I do know is that my own work is safely on a CD and it does not matter if the computer files are lost forever.

         And I also know that anything you depend on you want to own free and clear.
8. Judith May 19, 2017 at 3:26 pm

   Patrick Lang on Lieberman as potential director of the FBI:

   http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2017/05/httpwwwtheamericanconservativecomarticlesfreemans-fight.html
9. RabidGandhi May 19, 2017 at 3:35 pm

   O Globo Calls For Michel Temer to Resign

   This newspaper has supported from the first moment the reformist project of President Michel Temer. It believed then and it believes now that, more than any other, his plan is the right one for Brazilians, because only it will make Brazil find the path to growth, which is crucial for the well-being of all Brazilians. Reforms are essential to lead the country towards political stability, social peace and the normal functioning of our institutions.

   …

   Resignation is a unilateral decision by the president. I.e., not what is best for him, but for the country, this should be the decision that Michel Temer eventually makes. This is what good citizens expect of him.

   For those just tuning in, O Globo is Brazil’s major media monopoly (imagine CNN, Fox and MSNBC all rolled into one excremental package), and it was Globo that was the major driving force behind the impeachment of Dilma Rousseff and the installation of Temer in her place.

   The question here has never been whether Temer is corrupt; it is whether he has the oligarchy’s support. With this editorial, Kingmaker O Globo indicates that that support is now gone.
10. Vatch May 19, 2017 at 3:38 pm

    “DARPA’s Synthetic Biology Initiatives Could Militarize the Environment” [Slate]

    I hope they haven’t discovered the protomolecule.
    1. cocomaan May 19, 2017 at 5:53 pm

       I’m reading Cibola Burn right now. Good stuff.
       1. Vatch May 19, 2017 at 9:23 pm

          So far, I’ve only read the first two.
11. PKMKII May 19, 2017 at 3:54 pm

    Curious to see how Swearengin does. It was largely dismissed by the punditry as irrelevant and inescapable, but Gore failing to win WV in 2000 (and every Democratic candidate since) struck me at the time that something was wrong. That was solid, union member, working class Democrat country. Dems losing it meant the voters stopped seeing them as for the unions and working class. Hope she can bring back the working class politics there.
    1. WeakendSquire May 19, 2017 at 4:45 pm

       Given that she seems to be basically anti-coal mining, she will not break 20%.

       Attacking Jim Justice–the most popular man in the state? His coal mines and other businesses provide jobs for working people. What is it about “progressives” that they can’t understand that? The Brand New Congress people are nearly as tone deaf as the DNC when it comes to working people.
       1. Elizabeth Burton May 19, 2017 at 5:11 pm

          Those who live in coal country would be perfectly happy doing something else than workin’ in the coal mine. The problem is not the loss of those jobs. It’s the loss of those jobs that were then never replaced with anything else. Furthermore, they aren’t stupid enough not to know the coal industry is dying, a few hardcore unicorn-riders notwithstanding.

          Dismissing Swearingen, as I noted earlier, is as hypocritical as those tone-deaf Democrats in the DNC, because doing so plays right into their hands. This is why so many good candidates lose—because people who aren’t on the ground where they are decide they aren’t viable and voice that opinion loudly where it can do the most damage.

          Gerrymandering “works” because the party in power creates the districts so as to encompass as many people who voted for them in the last election in one bunch. However, that assumes there aren’t more than enough people able to vote who didn’t because they had no one to vote for. Or voted for the party in power because they heard over and over there was no point in doing otherwise.

          We have to stop chopping ourselves off at the knees before we even get to the starting line. That kind of defeatism, especially when flavored with elitist cynicism, is what got us where we are in the first place. We can convince people who’ve given up any hope of having control over what happens to them they can get that control back if our only message is “there’s no hope.”
          1. HotFlash May 19, 2017 at 5:29 pm

             Paula’s website is here, if you like her you can donate directly. We don’t need no stinkin’ DNC. Put me down for $27.
             1. jawbone May 20, 2017 at 12:53 pm

                I really like the “Repeal and Replace Congress” slogan and the t-shirts.

                Also, “Reset Democracy” is good.

                And the purple color choice.

                Now, if only I had the money to purchase and donate as I would like to….
          2. Jeff W May 19, 2017 at 6:54 pm

             I agree completely.

             And, whether or not she is “anti-coal mining,” Paula Swearingen seems very much pro-coal miner.

             Here’s a bit of her stump speech:

             PAULA SWEARINGEN: I was born in West Virginia, and I was born a coal minert’s daughter, grand-daughter… and in West Virginia, you are told to live, breathe, eat, literally coal. We’re told that coal defines us. So as a little girl I was proud of my coal heritage. I was proud to be the coal miner’s daughter.

             But as I watched the progression of what coal did to my family, I wasn’t so proud any more.

             My grandfather spent 45 years in the coal mines, and I watched him suffocate to death. My father served in the military in Korea, and he was a coal miner, and he had cancer and I watched him suffocate. My step father has heart disease. He’s had open heart surgery. And he gets up every morning and he suffers.

             But that was only the beginning of what I learned about the suffering in Appalachia…

             Is there any coal mining family that won’t relate to that?

             Sen. Sanders won all 55 of West Virginia’s counties in the Democratic primary. At that town hall in March in McDowell County, West Virginia, he was cheered by an audience of almost all Trump voters. I would not rule out Paula Swearingen, who is more closely aligned policy-wise with Sanders than with the establishment Democrats,
       2. different clue May 19, 2017 at 6:59 pm

          The Swearingen experiment deserves to be run. If certain side-effects of coal mining . . . the disease, the broadacre land destruction, the water destruction . . . are not popular with people who suffer from them, then Swearingen might get some votes from people affected by those certain side-effects of coal mining.
12. Carla May 19, 2017 at 4:24 pm

    “That was solid, union member, working class Democrat country. Dems losing it meant the voters stopped seeing them as for the unions and working class.”

    The failure was not on the part of voters. Here, let me fix the second sentence for you:
    “Dems losing it meant voters realized the party had abandoned unions and the working class.”

    That’s what happened. Why not say so?
    1. PKMKII May 19, 2017 at 4:53 pm

       Because whether they are or aren’t is irrelevant in elections; voter perception is everything.
13. Kim Kaufman May 19, 2017 at 4:40 pm

    Lifted from facebook friend:

    “Special counsel Robert Mueller was working at a law firm (Wilmer Hale) which represents Ivanka Trump and her husband Jared Kushner, as well as former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort.

    So, despite Mueller’s credibility as well as the fact that he just resigned his law firm position to accept the appointment, doesn’t this STILL seem like a partisan Trump political appointment…. AND don’t we STILL need a truly independent investigation into any Trump campaign ties to the Russians?”

    The same conflicts of interest will be brought up with Lieberman’s present employer Kasowitz Benson Torres & Friedman but everyone’s mum on Mueller.

    Not a great article but details some of the unsavory cases Kasowitz has handled for Trump:

    http://www.politicususa.com/2017/05/19/employed-donald-trumps-favorite-law-firms-joe-lieberman-run-fbi.html

    Wtf?
    1. lyman alpha blob May 19, 2017 at 6:35 pm

       Interesting tidbit on Mueller but it doesn’t necessarily follow that he’s in the bag for Trump. My assumption would be quite the opposite.

       And regarding this –

       …AND don’t we STILL need a truly independent investigation into any Trump campaign ties to the Russians?

       Tell your friend that no, we don’t. Multiple intelligence sources have stated on the record that there’s really nothing to see here and no evidence of illegality. It’s all the off the record spooks spreading rumors and insinuations. If they had anything on him, we’d have heard about it by now.

       Know what I want to know? Whatever happened to all those women who brought accusations of sexual impropriety against Trump just before the election?!!??!?!?!? You’d think all the pussy hats would be screaming about that but it’s been crickets since election day. Makes one wonder if that was all just more Clinton-fabricated bul**hit too.
       1. Kim Kaufman May 19, 2017 at 8:21 pm

          read the link:

          “Later that month, Marc Kasowitz, a partner in the firm, wrote a threatening letter to the NYT demanding it retract an article about two women who claimed Trump touched them “inappropriately.”
          1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef May 19, 2017 at 9:00 pm

             Did the NYT back down or stand by the story?
    2. Kim Kaufman May 19, 2017 at 8:25 pm

       More from Marcy Wheeler:

       https://www.emptywheel.net/2017/05/19/the-kushner-comey-connection/

       “Trump may well think Flynn is a nice man that deserves his loyalty. More likely, though, Trump knows that Flynn could sink his son-in-law. I believe that’s why Trump had to fire Comey in an effort to undercut the Flynn investigation.

       And Rod Rosenstein, the survivor, just picked a partner from the firm of Kushner and Ivanka’s lawyer Jamie Gorelick, Robert Mueller, to take over the investigation into Flynn.

       Update: Sure enough, Reuters is reporting that Mueller, by design, may not be able to investigate Kushner or Paul Manafort.

       Within hours of Mueller’s appointment on Wednesday, the White House began reviewing the Code of Federal Regulations, which restricts newly hired government lawyers from investigating their prior law firm’s clients for one year after their hiring, the sources said.

       An executive order signed by Trump in January extended that period to two years.

       Mueller’s former law firm, WilmerHale, represents Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner, who met with a Russian bank executive in December, and the president’s former campaign manager Paul Manafort, who is a subject of a federal investigation.

       Legal experts said the ethics rule can be waived by the Justice Department, which appointed Mueller. He did not represent Kushner or Manafort directly at his former law firm.

       If the department did not grant a waiver, Mueller would be barred from investigating Kushner or Manafort, and this could greatly diminish the scope of the probe, experts said.”
       1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef May 19, 2017 at 9:03 pm

          What is the significance of that meeting with a Russian bank executive (presumably not tied to Putin, otherwise, that would have been a major omission by the author)?

          Because Russian? Or Because bank executive?
          1. Kim Kaufman May 19, 2017 at 10:27 pm

             I think it’s about the omission of disclosing it, for one thing. Otherwise who knows where this is going and where it will wind up.
    3. gepay May 20, 2017 at 6:58 pm

       Since the Russian ties are a bogus proposition it doesn’t matter what Mueller does in that regard. what matters is who is he really working for? What section of the powers that be? The ones who got Trump elected or the ones who want him out and Pence in.The part of the military that regularly breaches international law in Syria (the bombing of Syrian troops in Der Ezoir to sabotage a cease fire and once again this past week) or those against regime change for Israel’s benefit). The neocons who are sad that Hillary lost and think about first strike feasibility or those in the powers that be that think detente with Russia is preferable. He definitely will do whatever the section he works for wants.
14. Foppe May 19, 2017 at 5:04 pm

    Erdogan’s bodyguards y’day afternoon apparently beat up a bunch of protesters in DC? https://twitter.com/turkeyuntold/status/865304412499173376
    Is that a new thing?
    1. different clue May 19, 2017 at 7:02 pm

       Well . . . somewhat new that the security guards of some God Damned Foreigner would do such a thing. Normally it is American security guards or police doing such a thing here in America.

       But it is not entirely unprecedented. I believe Chinese security guards have sometimes beaten up American protesters on behalf of their Chinese government.

       And the Pinochet Chile-gov arranged the bomb-assassination of Orlando Letelier in this country.

       So it has happened from time to time.
       1. JTMcPhee May 20, 2017 at 8:23 am

          And of course the Israelites make a practice of flouting other nations’ sovereignty and forging documents like passports to give their assasination teams “legends’ and cover to “reach out and touch” people they don;t like. And apparently can do it with impunity. And it’s an old story, https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/feb/18/british-government-dubai-mossad, that gets renewed regularly…

          And ask a “Philistine” in Gaza or the West Bank, or any Israeli citizens that go against the flux of the Likudnik corruptniks who “apartheid” it over all, how and why there is no protection against Israelite state violence, or recompense for those who suffer it. “Getting away with murder,” I believe it is called, like US cops who shoot kids and crazy people and other “citizens” — and of course what the Israelites do is typical of what the rest of the Owners do, here and everywhere. Ask native populations or land-reformers in Mexico and the rest of the “little nations” of Monroedoctrinia, or Africa…

          And what are the Owned here in the Empire going to do about all that? “Trans” bathrooms? Women in combat roles? “Petitions” to the legislature and executive to “please do better?” Grains of sand, resisting the advance of the tide, rolled and buffeted with each wave so the sharp corners and edges are eroded away…
15. Altandmain May 19, 2017 at 5:12 pm

    Re: The Bloomberg article on wages not rising

    Has anyone else realized how Orwellian the claims about the “job shortage” are? I just got rejected for another job after a phone interview … sigh, and I”m thinking there’s no shortage of people – there’s a huge oversupply of people and a shortage of jobs. If there were a shortage of people, employers could not just reject anyone at will. The situation would look like the Golden Age of capitalism or the tech sector in the 1990s where they would have to pay more and take people on even without as much experience as they liked.

    Employers want a person with years of experience, low ball them, and give them insecure employment. That’s what this is about. I’d be interested to see the decline in job quality in the US and Canada.

    Is anyone else reading NC struggling to find work? One other note, the jobs are paying significantly less than the jobs that existed before the recession. Real wages appear to be in decline and even nominal wages may be in decline in many sectors.

    Noticeably absent in the discussion is that the very rich are waging class warfare on the rest of the world. They are trying to enrich themselves at the expense of literally anyone else.

    The rich are really playing with fire here. The reason why such anti-immigration sentiment exists is because they keep demanding more immigration, when there are job shortages in the existing market.

    Oh and the Democrats are trying to ride it out.
    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/05/weathering-the-storm-democratic-leadership-is-play.html

    Oh and Nancy Pelosi opposes universal healthcare.
    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/05/nancy-pelosis-aversion-to-single-payer-may-cost-he.html

    This is just plain messed up.
    1. cocomaan May 19, 2017 at 5:59 pm

       Hang in there, friend. You’ll find something.

       Every single institution I encounter these days seems to have no money. My state? Can’t balance the budget, is cutting all over the place. My workplace? No guarantee of a cost of living adjustment this year. My wife’s institution? Same thing. My brother’s healthcare institution? Riding completely by the seat of their pants.

       There’s a great big hole in the economy through which all our money is flowing. Marx talked about it:

       Finally, in the same measure in which the capitalists are compelled, by the movement described above, to exploit the already existing gigantic means of production on an ever-increasing scale, and for this purpose to set in motion all the mainsprings of credit, in the same measure do they increase the industrial earthquakes, in the midst of which the commercial world can preserve itself only by sacrificing a portion of its wealth, its products, and even its forces of production, to the gods of the lower world – in short, the crises increase. They become more frequent and more violent, if for no other reason, than for this alone, that in the same measure in which the mass of products grows, and therefore the needs for extensive markets, in the same measure does the world market shrink ever more, and ever fewer markets remain to be exploited, since every previous crisis has subjected to the commerce of the world a hitherto unconquered or but superficially exploited market.
       1. Altandmain May 19, 2017 at 6:22 pm

          Thanks for the words of encouragement. Agree with the problem of every institution having no money these days.

          Apart from the rich, who often pay a lower effective tax rate, fewer people have taxable income these days that governments can raise. By extension there’s no money for everything else funded by taxes.

          Businesses feel the pinch with the decline in demand. Those collapses in the restaurant industry, auto industry, retail, etc I think are all caused by a fall in aggregate demand. The neoliberal order is its own worst enemy.

          Even for those who don’t agree with Marx’s solutions, I think that his criticisms of capitalism have a very good point. An Eastern European fellow once noted that only after the collapse of the Soviet Union did they realize that Marx had valid criticisms of capitalism.
       2. different clue May 19, 2017 at 7:04 pm

          You don’t need a weathermarx to know which way the cash flows.
    2. MyLessThanPrimeBeef May 19, 2017 at 6:49 pm

       I think you can only build so man mansions along the California coast, so, the rich will always have to extra more to become richer, lest they lose their breath-the-ocean-air, watch-the-sun-set spots.
       1. mk May 19, 2017 at 7:56 pm

          And those sea walls protecting their homes are very expensive!
    3. Huey Long May 19, 2017 at 6:56 pm

       I’m on the same page as you here. I think these stories are complete mularky because of how the labor force is defined.

       From BLS (https://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm):

       What are the basic concepts of employment and unemployment?
       The basic concepts involved in identifying the employed and unemployed are quite simple:

       People with jobs are employed.

       People who are jobless, looking for a job, and available for work are unemployed.

       The labor force is made up of the employed and the unemployed.

       People who are neither employed nor unemployed are not in the labor force.

       The labor force only consists of people with jobs or actively looking. We may have a low unemployment rate according to this metric, but it fails to describe the huge reserve army of labor that exists in this country:

       Just think of all the housewives and househusbands who are filling those roles because they either can’t get a job or can’t get a job that pays good enough to offset the cost of daycare?

       Or how about the people out in flyover who had the town factory close down who aren’t on a payroll or looking for a formal job but do some odd jobs for cash to make ends meet?

       Or the legions of petty drug dealers who are eeking out a living selling dime bags and 20 sacks? They’re not in the labor force either but the minute retail pay exceeds petty drug dealer pay (not much: http://articles.latimes.com/2005/apr/24/opinion/oe-dubner24) they’ll be looking for jobs too?

       The bottom line is there is no shortage of warm bodies available to work and I think that is definitely a factor in what’s keeping salaries in the toilet and enabling crapification.

       Furthermore, I think crapification serves to keep the labor force metric artificially small as it encourages folks to say “eff it, I’m done. I’d rather do some handyman crap and sell some pot on the side to pay my rent rather than suffer in the Tesla factory for slightly more $$$.”

       As of right now I don’t think the squillionaires have anything to fear from a civil disturbance so long as the lights are on, the people are fed, they control the major propaganda organs and the state security apparatus remains loyal.

       As for the future, things can go very wrong for team squillionaire if they fail in any of these areas, as in 1989-1991 USSR very wrong.
       1. Altandmain May 20, 2017 at 11:59 am

          I think that Trump’s election is a sign that the elite are starting to finally and at long last lose legitimacy.

          They have very much earned it, but the problem is that many of the post-Soviet states were dominated by corrupt oligarchs who looted everything.
    4. cat's paw May 19, 2017 at 7:26 pm

       Yeah, I am. Oversupply of applicants and shortage of decent jobs is my impression too. Working class and poor are already well screwed. Seems we’ve moved into territory where many professionals and the highly educated are also disposable; say like the post Soviet Russia era where looting became a genuine art form.
    5. Octopii May 20, 2017 at 11:05 am

       Three men in my immediate family are unemployed and have not been able to find work for an extended period of time. Six months for my brother, over a year for my brother in law, and my father in law gave up and retired after several years of looking. All these guys are 40+ and they blame ageism. Their wives are employed and are carrying the family load, working long hours, two out of three in positions that pay much less than the men had earned. BIL is working part time retail selling bikes while he tries to start his own business (with no capital, yes, that should end well). Nobody except the oldest guy was able to save much of a cushion, and those cushions are long gone.

       On the other hand, everyone I know here in DC is working, busting their tail and doing pretty well. I myself just got hired quite easily for a great job and and am shutting the doors on my small business. Cause of death is benefits costs, pure and simple, meaning healthcare. I’m also getting worried about general stability and ageism, and am sacrificing some freedom to get in with a large employer now, hoping to get more current with some of the changes in my industry so as to stay employable. DC still seems to have a robust job market despite what’s going on elsewhere. For now.
       1. Altandmain May 20, 2017 at 11:59 am

          Maybe I should consider moving to DC at that rate.

          There doesn’t seem to be anywhere in Canada doing very well.
16. Altandmain May 19, 2017 at 5:51 pm

    Imperial Collapse Watch?
    http://warisboring.com/the-f-35-just-got-1-7-billion-more-expensive/

    This F-35, the LCS, and these other projects seem to be little more than efforts to make the military industrial complex rich.

    Generals should be banned from working in the defense industry after retirement.
    1. MyLessThanPrimeBeef May 19, 2017 at 6:56 pm

       Those generals need cooperative politicians to get funding.
    2. Huey Long May 19, 2017 at 7:10 pm

       I’m on board with you, but there are a legion of F-35 fanbois out there, believe it or not. Check out this forum, it makes for some very entertaining reading:

       http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=22

       As for the LCS, it doesn’t seem to have any discernible fanbois, but it does have some apologists:

       https://warontherocks.com/2016/01/why-choose-the-littoral-combat-ship-because-it-is-the-best-option/
    3. NotTimothyGeithner May 19, 2017 at 11:08 pm

       We have to many generals, and we need a better tax system to prevent the temptation for hooker and blow money. Outright banning is not necessarily a good idea.
    4. tony May 20, 2017 at 3:18 am

       Personally I’m quite happy the MIC gets their money without needing to start any more wars.
17. Blurtman May 19, 2017 at 6:52 pm

    “We didn’t have the votes” on single payer, you can throw this in their face share this with them.”

    What about the Blue Dog Democrats? They would not have voted for singe payer.
    1. different clue May 19, 2017 at 7:06 pm

       They should have been forced to vote against Single Payer in open view, before God AND C-SPAN.
    2. katiebird May 19, 2017 at 7:16 pm

       We only needed 51 votes and Obama was wildly popular in 2009 among Democrats. If he wanted Single Payer to pass, it would have passed. He could have done it by April 2009.

       Obama didn’t want it, then or now.
       1. mk May 19, 2017 at 7:57 pm

          I think of Obama as pimp daddy now, just a guy trying to pimp you out who will tell you anything he thinks you want to hear so he can get over on you. That’s Pimp Daddy Obama. Traitor. But he got his, didn’t he?! He’s a rich man now.
          1. polecat May 20, 2017 at 12:57 am

             He be kickin it with his uber-rich homie Branson … and others like him, and got quite the grill … don’t he.
    3. NotTimothyGeithner May 19, 2017 at 11:06 pm

       Its actually simple.

       Obama flies to their district, holds a rally, and introduces his friend, some random state senator, ignoring the Blue Dog.

       Obama flies to the district, holds a rally, and publicly thanks the Blue Dog for taking the lead on support Single Payer in front of the 100,000 person crowd.
18. ewmayer May 19, 2017 at 8:56 pm

    “With Uber Freight, Travis Takes on Trucking” [Wired]. “Travis”? WTF, Wired? — Well after all, that *is* how techBros talk to each other, yes?
19. marym May 19, 2017 at 9:50 pm

    AHIP, AHA, et al. sternly worded letter to Senate

    As providers of healthcare and coverage to hundreds of millions of Americans, we are writing again to you as leaders in Congress to express our serious concerns about the continued uncertainty around funding for cost-sharing reduction (CSR) payments. There now is clear evidence that this uncertainty is undermining the individual insurance market for 2018 and stands to negatively impact millions of people…

    PDF for full letter
20. Adam Eran May 19, 2017 at 9:58 pm

    Wondering how the Mexicans profited from NAFTA?

    1. A $20 billion loan from the U.S. to deal with capital flight, and not incidentally, rehearse the bailout of American banks by bailing out those in trouble in Mexico.

    2. A 34% decline in real income (Source: Ravi Batra’s “Greenspan’s Fraud”). This is saying something in a country where half the population gets by on $4 or less a day. The only comparable decline in the U.S. was in the Great Depression. Of course nobody migrated then….oh wait!

    One might figure that shipping a bunch of subsidized corn down south would put lots of Mexican subsistence corn farmers out of business. After all, corn is only arguably the most important food crop in the world, and they were keeping the diversity of the corn genome alive, but they weren’t making any money for Monsanto!

    NAFTA was so unpopular in Mexico that the Harvard-educated Mexican president who proposed it–Carlos Salinas Gotari–retired to Ireland for a few years so the furor would die down, and presumably to be safe from the pitchforks and tar.
21. Emorej a Hong Kong May 19, 2017 at 10:46 pm

    Contrary to the snarky comment, there is value and importance EFF’s contribution here:
    “Fixing Trade Agreements In Five Simple Steps” [Electronic Frontier Foundation]. “Trade experts agree that without five simple fixes, Americans will continue to reject new trade deals….”

    Reasons, this comprehensive agenda for transparency and big-circle consultation:
    1. rebuts the allegation that anti-TPP means “anti-trade” and “anti-modernity”.
    2. would involve workers, consumers and voters.
    3. would change the content of proposals, negotiations and final agreements.
22. witters May 20, 2017 at 12:42 am

    ”They ought to be figuring out how to clothe the homeless or feed the poor, not all of this political nonsense.’

    Politics has nothing to do with food and shelter?

    What a place you guys have!
23. tony May 20, 2017 at 2:22 am

    Some old recipes don’t work with modern groceries. For example, meat is full of water these days, and has a different fatty acid composition. So is does not cook the same or taste the same.
24. stonecutter May 20, 2017 at 3:17 am

    We few, we happy few,
    we band of Americans;
    For he or she today that votes for me
    Shall be my sibling; be they ne’er so vile,
    This day shall gentle their social class;
    And people in blue states now a-bed
    Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
    And hold their privileges cheap whiles any speaks
    That voted for Trump upon Election day.
25. Bob Haugen May 20, 2017 at 6:48 pm

    Wow, what a long comment thread! But still, I must add more:
    > I’m not sure what the Mexican farmers think about that, though.

    Those that might have objected are gone.

Comments are closed.