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2:00PM Water Cooler 9/11/2024

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* * *

Patient readers, plenty more on the debate shortly. –lambert

Bird Song of the Day

Gray Catbird, Sapsucker Woods, Tompkins, New York, United States.

* * *

In Case You Might Miss…

  1. Kamala’s earrings.
  2. About those cats… .
  3. Do Covid tests work for the latest variants? Not immediately.
  4. Boeing should be kicked out of the Dow.

* * *

Politics

“So many of the social reactions that strike us as psychological are in fact a rational management of symbolic capital.” –Pierre Bourdieu, Classification Struggles

* * *

2024

Less than one hundred days to go!

Friday’s RCP Poll Averages:

I would say the bloom is off the rose for Harris, except for an upward blip in Georgia. Looks like the enormous liberalgasm afte the Convention was confined to party loyalists. The Kamala campaign must be sore as boils Trump is within striking distance, let alone tied with them. What could account for it? Perhaps that’s why the pivot to RussiaGate. Remember, however, that all the fluctuations — in fact, all the leads, top to bottom — are within the margin of error.

* * *

The Debate

Lambert here: Thanks to the Naked Capitalism commentariat for their remarkably level-headed reactions during the debate live blog yesterday. –lambert

“Some undecided voters not convinced by Harris after debate with Trump” [Reuters]. “Reuters interviewed 10 people who were still unsure how they were going to vote in the Nov. 5 election before they watched the debate. Six said afterward they would now either vote for Trump or were leaning toward backing him. Three said they would now back Harris and one was still unsure how he would vote. Harris and Trump are in a tight race and the election will likely be decided by just tens of thousands of votes in a handful of battleground states, many of whom are swing voters like the undecided voters who spoke to Reuters.

Although the sample size was small, the responses suggested Harris might need to provide more detailed policy proposals to win over voters who have yet to make up their minds. Five said they found Harris vague during the more than 90-minute debate on how she would improve the U.S. economy and deal with the high cost of living, a top concern for voters.” • Recall yesterday that debate viewers felt that Trump did better on the economy. I’m betting that outweighs Kamala doing better on abortion.

OG Frank Luntz has some interesting things to say:

And:

Kamala’s on-screen reactions were smug, smirking, and contemptuous throughout. Reporter Jane O’Reilly once remarked that “George Bush reminds every woman of her first husband.” Perhaps Kamala Harris reminds every man of his first wife?

* * *

Kamala (D): “Did Kamala Harris wear earpiece during debate with Donald Trump? What we know” [India Today]. “Many social media users claimed that the pearl earrings Kamal Harris wore were actually an audio earpiece, and she was being fed answers during the debate [,] a set of Nova H1 Audio Earrings, created by German startup NOVA Products…. However, some users highlighted that Kamala Harris was wearing a pair of Double Pearl Hinged Earrings from Tiffany & Co, which she has worn frequently…. After the 2020 presidential debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, a similar claim circulated on social media, alleging that Biden wore a hidden earpiece.” • I’m so old I remember the same claim being made online about George W. Bush, who was said to be wearing a receiving device + antenna under his jacket (based on photos of lumps under his jacket). Big if true, but also a hardy perennial.

Kamala (D): “Trump’s Improv Stood No Chance Against Harris’ Coached Attacks” [Politico]. “ice President Kamala Harris did exactly what the political professionals said she should do. In some cases, that was what operatives would tell any candidate to do in any election at any time: Don’t worry about the specific question you are asked, just use it as another opportunity to recite the lines we practiced.” Highlighted in blue, below. More: “She plainly used her long days of debate prep in a Pittsburgh hotel to compile a rich anthology of taunts, putdowns and derisive one-liners against former President Donald Trump. The rehearsal was enough to commit dozens of them to memory — not enough to avoid sometimes sounding a bit stagy in delivery. At times, one could almost see the candidate flipping through a stack of neatly organized 3-by-5 index cards in her mind.” • Such an improvemnt over Biden!

Kamala (D): “How Harris Roped a Dope” [David Frum, The Atlantic]. We don’t actually know the result of the bout until we have polling, and perhaps not even then (the polls not being granular enough). More: “Harris’s debate prep seemed to have concentrated on psychology as much as on policy. She drove Trump and trapped him and baited him—and it worked every time.” • As do all Democrats, it would seem, reading the rest of the piece. Honestly, it’s like high school.

* * *

Trump (R): “READ: Harris-Trump presidential debate transcript” [ABC]. Quite different from viewing. I wanted to see how often former prosecutor Kamala used the word “felon,” but only “felony” comes up. I’ve helpfully added color coding: Yellow in usual sense of highlighting, Blue for canned phrases strung together, Green for oddities:

In my view, Kamala doesn’t go into word salad mode, and Trump doesn’t riff jazzily; this is probably as sharp an exchange as there was. Notes:

[1] Huh?

[2] Trump educates his audience by defining and using “weaponization.”

[3] Lawfare, at least in this debate, seems to have yielded remarkably little campaign fodder; Harris is not using “felon” at every turn. Perhaps the real advantages of lawfare were indeed political: Sucking up the campaign’s resources, including the most important resource of all, the candidate’s time.

[4] Kamala educates her voters by mistating the decision (and I don’t say is a good decision, but let’s at least get it right). Trivially, Trump vs. United States applies to all Presidents, not just Trump “if he enters the White House again.” Second, the decision does not make a President “essentially … immunue from any misconduct” (rather, charges of any misconduct), unless “essentially” is doing far more work than a mere adverb should ever be called upon to do; see SCOTUSblog, “Justices rule Trump has some immunity from prosecution” (emphasis mine). Third, the case would never have reached the Court had it not been for the Democrats lawfare strategy, which forced the issue. FAFO.

[5] I haven’t had time to run down that “quote,” “terminate.” Very often, Trump is misquoted by his opponents, so a hermenetic of suspicion applies.

[6] “That he would” exhibits a strategy Democrats often use: Something that might happen in the future is given equal weight to something that has already happened in the past.

[7] “Probably took a bullet to the head” will no doubt be regarded by Trump voters as a zinger (and to my mind, Trump has been remarkably restrained in deploying it). Neither Kamala nor the moderators respond, interestingly.

[8] Trump is, in fact, correct here. Had RussiaGate been anything like real, he surely would have been prosecuted for it, given the Democrat lawfare strategy.

Trump (R): “Trump pushes baseless claim about immigrants ‘eating the pets'” [NBC]. “David Muir, the ABC News anchor co-moderating the debate, immediately fact-checked Trump’s claims, saying that the city manager in Springfield, Ohio, told the network there had been no credible reports of pets being harmed, injured or abused by people in the city’s immigrant community Baseless rumors have spread on social media for days claiming that Haitian immigrants in Ohio are abducting and eating pets. Most of the rumors involve Springfield, which has a large number of Haitian immigrants, but police there released a statement Monday knocking down the stories and saying they hadn’t seen any documented examples. ‘There have been no credible reports or specific claims of pets being harmed, injured or abused by individuals within the immigrant community,’ the police said in a statement.” • Well… I’ve questioned what the local police had to say in Charleston, SC when they claimed a Boeing whistleblower committed suicide. So I’m not sure that NBC’s “we called the cops, and they said nah” is dispositive here. I also note that “no credible reports” means there have, in fact, been reports. Worth noting that Springfield-adjacent locals believe the stories (some of them because of missionary work in Haiti). For example:

Note that I regard claims from pastors and missionaries as being exactly as credible as claims from cops. Just because this looks like an overheated claim from the right-wing fever swamp doesn’t mean it actually is. What is needed is reporting on the ground; perhaps there will be some in the coming days.

“No Evidence Haitian Immigrants Are Eating Ducks, Geese or Pets in Springfield, Ohio” [Snopes]. The conclusion: “There is no evidence, outside of second- and third-hand social media gossip, to support the notion that Haitian residents of Springfield, Ohio, are eating people’s pet cats or their parks’ waterfowl. The only alleged evidence in support of the former actually depicts an American in a different city. The alleged evidence of the latter stems from a single picture apparently taken in a different city. For these reasons, and because Springfield officials deny the validity of such reports, the claim is ‘Unfounded.'” More interestingly: “Since 2020, Springfield, Ohio, has seen a dramatic rise in immigrants from Haiti. City officials estimate, according to The New York Times, that as many as 20,000 Haitians had arrived in the small town in 2024 since the onset of the pandemic. Thanks to the availability of jobs, Springfield became a hot spot for Haitian immigrants around that time, according to reporting in NPR. According to The New York Times, the arrival of several manufacturing plants or corporations between 2017 and 2020 created a surplus of jobs. A lack of local labor created a deficit of workers, and word spread among the Haitian community that work could be found in the town, per the Times…. Many young, working-age people [from Springfield] had descended into addiction.” As if “deaths of despair” were some sort of natural force. More: “Others shunned entry-level, rote work altogether, employers said. Haitians who heard that the Springfield area boasted well-paying, blue-collar jobs and a low cost of living poured in, and employers were eager to hire and train the new work force.” • I’ll bet they were! The Snopes story doesn’t mention Springfield’s population: Wikipedia says 58,662, and that “A 27% decrease in median income between 1999 and 2014 was the largest of any metropolitan area in the country.” A sudden influx of 20,000 people would be a lot under any circumstances, and it looks like Springfield isn’t getting any help at all dealing with the resulting friction. If I were a long-time Springfield resident who saw (deplorable) family members taken down by the Sackler’s Oxycontin because there was no work and no future, and then when the future appeared, they were in no position (like six feet under) to take advantage of it, you can bet I’d be ticked off, and that’s without race even entering the picture. Meanwhile, the area employers are pleased as punch with their new, imported docile workforce — a very familiar story in America — so you can see why the cops would follow their cue. So, and very unsurprisingly, class enters, neither candidate mentions it, and “cat-eating immigrants” becomes the trope under whose aegis the entire situation is placed. Well done, all. Oh, and on the employers:

“I wish I had 30 more.”

Trump (R): World class trolling:

For those who came in late, the Four Seasons Total Landscaping debacle in 2020.

* * *

The Trail

Kamala (D): Taylor Swift Endorses Kamala Harris: ‘I’ve Done My Research, and I’ve Made My Choice'” [Hollywood Reporter]. The deck: “The superspreading songwriting billionaire superstar took to Instagram following Tuesday night’s debate to give Vice President Kamala Harris her highly influential endorsement, signing off her lengthy post, ‘With love and hope, Taylor Swift, Childless Cat Lady.'”

Democrats en Déshabillé

“Texas Candidate Smokes Bong In Campaign Ad” [International Business Times]. • Good for her!

Realignment and Legitimacy

Double-think, but exponential:

Syndemics

“I am in earnest — I will not equivocate — I will not excuse — I will not retreat a single inch — AND I WILL BE HEARD.” –William Lloyd Garrison

* * *

Covid Resources, United States (National): Transmission (CDC); Wastewater (CDC, Biobot; includes many counties; Wastewater Scan, includes drilldown by zip); Variants (CDC; Walgreens); “Iowa COVID-19 Tracker” (in IA, but national data). “Infection Control, Emergency Management, Safety, and General Thoughts” (especially on hospitalization by city).

Lambert here: Readers, thanks for the collective effort. To update any entry, do feel free to contact me at the address given with the plants. Please put “COVID” in the subject line. Thank you!

Resources, United States (Local): AK (dashboard); AL (dashboard); AR (dashboard); AZ (dashboard); CA (dashboard; Marin, dashboard; Stanford, wastewater; Oakland, wastewater); CO (dashboard; wastewater); CT (dashboard); DE (dashboard); FL (wastewater); GA (wastewater); HI (dashboard); IA (wastewater reports); ID (dashboard, Boise; dashboard, wastewater, Central Idaho; wastewater, Coeur d’Alene; dashboard, Spokane County); IL (wastewater); IN (dashboard); KS (dashboard; wastewater, Lawrence); KY (dashboard, Louisville); LA (dashboard); MA (wastewater); MD (dashboard); ME (dashboard); MI (wastewater; wastewater); MN (dashboard); MO (wastewater); MS (dashboard); MT (dashboard); NC (dashboard); ND (dashboard; wastewater); NE (dashboard); NH (wastewater); NJ (dashboard); NM (dashboard); NV (dashboard; wastewater, Southern NV); NY (dashboard); OH (dashboard); OK (dashboard); OR (dashboard); PA (dashboard); RI (dashboard); SC (dashboard); SD (dashboard); TN (dashboard); TX (dashboard); UT (wastewater); VA (dashboard); VT (dashboard); WA (dashboard; dashboard); WI (wastewater); WV (wastewater); WY (wastewater).

Resources, Canada (National): Wastewater (Government of Canada).

Resources, Canada (Provincial): ON (wastewater); QC (les eaux usées); BC (wastewater); BC, Vancouver (wastewater).

Hat tips to helpful readers: Alexis, anon (2), Art_DogCT, B24S, CanCyn, ChiGal, Chuck L, Festoonic, FM, FreeMarketApologist (4), Gumbo, hop2it, JB, JEHR, JF, JL Joe, John, JM (10), JustAnotherVolunteer, JW, KatieBird, KF, LL, Michael King, KF, LaRuse, mrsyk, MT, MT_Wild, otisyves, Petal (6), RK (2), RL, RM, Rod, square coats (11), tennesseewaltzer, Tom B., Utah, Bob White (3).

Stay safe out there!

* * *

Airborne Transmission

Vaccines: Covid

Having fought its way through the FDA, non-mRNA Novavax now has to fight the PBMs?

Testing and Tracking: Covid

“Do Covid Tests Work for Latest Variants? Yes, With Some Big Caveats” [Bloomberg]. ” I started to wonder: Are home Covid tests bad at detecting the latest variants? The short answer is no, the doctors I spoke with told me. But that answer comes with a big caveat. It turns out the way the immune system interacts with the virus these days means home tests may not turn positive until several days after you get sick. ‘That first negative test doesn’t mean you don’t have Covid,’ says Elizabeth Hudson, regional chief of infectious diseases at Southern California Permanente Medical Group. ‘We really noticed it earlier this year.’ Now, it can take several days for people with symptoms like mine to get a positive result from a home test, she says.

Here’s why: While gold-standard PCR assays detect minute quantities of virus, home antigen tests require a larger amount to turn positive. Early in the pandemic, viral levels peaked when symptoms appeared, says Nira Pollock, co-director of the Infectious Diseases Diagnostic Laboratory at Boston Children’s Hospital. But now that most people have at least some immunity, viral load peaks later…. In a study of 348 people with Covid that Pollock and her colleagues published last year, median viral load didn’t crest until around the fourth day of symptoms. The study estimated that home antigen tests would only detect around 30% to 60% of cases on the first day of symptoms, rising to 80% to 93% of cases on day four. In other words, there are lots of false negative tests early in the illness.” • So by all means keep going to work or school at the first sign of symptoms!

Elite Maleficence

“Zero-covid advocacy during the COVID-19 pandemic: a case study of views on Twitter/X” [Monash Bioethics Review]. From the Abstract: “The advocacy, although timely and informative, often appealed to emotions and values using anecdotes and strong criticism of authorities and other scientists.” The idea! Here is a brutal takedown of this paper, which will probably get a lot of traction because this is the stupidest timeline. Here is an entertainingly brutal takedown:

And more. Much more.

Social Norming

Propaganda works:

“Stupid”:

Sobriety vs. normalization and denial:

Perceptive. I am sympathetic to this view. However, in my view sobriety also demands restraining judgment over one’s fellows (“There but for the grace of God go I”) and this view comes perilously close to creating a two-tier society of the elect and the damned; something I tend to do myself! One of the great things about A.A. is that it created a method for sobriety that at least many have been able to travel; it’s a big ask, but the Covid Conscious community has not done that.

* * *

TABLE 1: Daily Covid Charts

Wastewater
This week[1] CDC August 27 Last Week[2] CDC (until next week):

Variants [3] CDC August 31 Emergency Room Visits[4] CDC August 31

Hospitalization
★ New York[5] New York State, data September 10: National [6] CDC August 17:

Positivity
National[7] Walgreens September 9: Ohio[8] Cleveland Clinic August 24:

Travelers Data
Positivity[9] CDC August 19: Variants[10] CDC August 19:

Deaths
Weekly Deaths vs. % Positivity [11]CDC August 31: Weekly Deaths vs. ED Visits [12]CDC August 31:

LEGEND

1) ★ for charts new today; all others are not updated.

2) For a full-size/full-resolution image, Command-click (MacOS) or right-click (Windows) on the chart thumbnail and “open image in new tab.”

NOTES

[1] (CDC) This week’s wastewater map, with hot spots annotated. Keeps spreading. NOTE The date seems to be wrong, but the number of sites has changed so this is new.

[2] (CDC) Last week’s wastewater map.

[3] (CDC Variants) KP.* very popular. XDV.1 flat.

[4] (ED) Down, but worth noting that Emergency Department use is now on a par with the first wave, in 2020.

[5] (Hospitalization: NY) Definitely down.

[6] (Hospitalization: CDC). The visualization suppresses what is, in percentage terms, a significant increase.

[7] (Walgreens) Big drop continues!

[8] (Cleveland) Dropping.

[9] (Travelers: Positivity) Down. Those sh*theads at CDC have changed the chart so that it doesn’t even run back to 1/21/23, as it used to, but now starts 1/1/24. There’s also no way to adjust the time range. CDC really doesn’t want you to be able to take a historical view of the pandemic, or compare one surge to another. In an any case, that’s why the shape of the curve has changed.

[10] (Travelers: Variants) What the heck is LB.1?

[11] Deaths low, but positivity up.

[12] Deaths low, ED up.

Stats Watch

Inflation: “United States Consumer Price Index (CPI)” [Trading Economics]. “Consumer Price Index CPI in the United States increased to 314.80 points in August from 314.54 points in July of 2024. Consumer Price Index CPI in the United States averaged 124.59 points from 1950 until 2024, reaching an all time high of 314.80 points in August of 2024 and a record low of 23.50 points in February of 1950.”

* * *

Tech: “Google will now link to The Internet Archive to add more context to Search results” [9to5 Google]. “Google has partnered with The Internet Archive, a non-profit research library that, in part, stores and preserves massive portions of the web to be easily referenced later. This is done through the ‘Wayback Machine’ which can show a website or specific page as it existed on a previous date. Through this new partnership, Google will link directly to The Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine for pages that you find in Search.”

Tech: Innovation:

Manufacturing: “Boeing should be kicked out of the Dow” [CNN]. “It’s a legitimate question if the aircraft maker still belongs in the blue-chip index. And it’s a question with only one correct answer: No. ‘If you want bellwether, strong balance sheet companies, they don’t check those boxes any longer,’ said Ron Epstein, aerospace analyst for Bank of America. ‘I don’t think Boeing has to be there.’… There are many problems at Boeing that make its continued presence in the index perplexing…. It hasn’t reported an annual profit since 2018… the company has become the subject of numerous federal investigations, as more than a dozen whistleblowers have come forward to warn of a company culture that put a failed attempt at profitability ahead of the quality and safety of its planes…. Its credit rating has fallen to the lowest rung of what is considered “investment grade” debt, and indications are that sometime relatively soon it will fall into junk bond status… ‘If not an albatross, it’s at least an anchor,’ said Sam Stovall, chief investment strategist for CFRA Research.” • Ouch!

Manufacturing: “Starliner Suffers New Problems While Coming Back To Earth” [Futurism]. The deck: “We would not be surprised if Boeing were to divest the manned spaceflight business.” More: “On the one hand, according to NASA’s commercial crew program manager Steve Stich, it pulled off a ‘bullseye landing.’ On the other, the agency admitted that a new thruster had failed during its descent. The capsule also experienced a temporary blackout of Starliner’s guidance system during reentry. It’s an awkward situation for the space agency: would Starliner have been able to ferry NASA’s missing crew members in the end?”

* * *

Today’s Fear & Greed Index: 40 Fear (previous close: 39 Fear) [CNN]. One week ago: 49 (Neutral). (0 is Extreme Fear; 100 is Extreme Greed). Last updated Sep 11 at 1:51:10 PM ET.

Food

To me, food is for buying, not cooking, but this does look easy and fun:

Gallery

Key word being “effect”:

I believe I saw this painting years ago at the Boston MFA. Putting my eye up close to the paint, I saw no white; the effect of white was created by the juxtapostion of other colors.

News of the Wired

Who among us….

* * *

Contact information for plants: Readers, feel free to contact me at lambert [UNDERSCORE] strether [DOT] corrente [AT] yahoo [DOT] com, to (a) find out how to send me a check if you are allergic to PayPal and (b) to find out how to send me images of plants. Vegetables are fine! Fungi, lichen, and coral are deemed to be honorary plants! If you want your handle to appear as a credit, please place it at the start of your mail in parentheses: (thus). Otherwise, I will anonymize by using your initials. See the previous Water Cooler (with plant) here. From SR:

SR writes: “Blooming atop the gigantic cinder cone at Craters of the Moon National Monument in Idaho: rabbit brush (a member of the aster family).”

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About Lambert Strether

Readers, I have had a correspondent characterize my views as realistic cynical. Let me briefly explain them. I believe in universal programs that provide concrete material benefits, especially to the working class. Medicare for All is the prime example, but tuition-free college and a Post Office Bank also fall under this heading. So do a Jobs Guarantee and a Debt Jubilee. Clearly, neither liberal Democrats nor conservative Republicans can deliver on such programs, because the two are different flavors of neoliberalism (“Because markets”). I don’t much care about the “ism” that delivers the benefits, although whichever one does have to put common humanity first, as opposed to markets. Could be a second FDR saving capitalism, democratic socialism leashing and collaring it, or communism razing it. I don’t much care, as long as the benefits are delivered. To me, the key issue — and this is why Medicare for All is always first with me — is the tens of thousands of excess “deaths from despair,” as described by the Case-Deaton study, and other recent studies. That enormous body count makes Medicare for All, at the very least, a moral and strategic imperative. And that level of suffering and organic damage makes the concerns of identity politics — even the worthy fight to help the refugees Bush, Obama, and Clinton’s wars created — bright shiny objects by comparison. Hence my frustration with the news flow — currently in my view the swirling intersection of two, separate Shock Doctrine campaigns, one by the Administration, and the other by out-of-power liberals and their allies in the State and in the press — a news flow that constantly forces me to focus on matters that I regard as of secondary importance to the excess deaths. What kind of political economy is it that halts or even reverses the increases in life expectancy that civilized societies have achieved? I am also very hopeful that the continuing destruction of both party establishments will open the space for voices supporting programs similar to those I have listed; let’s call such voices “the left.” Volatility creates opportunity, especially if the Democrat establishment, which puts markets first and opposes all such programs, isn’t allowed to get back into the saddle. Eyes on the prize! I love the tactical level, and secretly love even the horse race, since I’ve been blogging about it daily for fourteen years, but everything I write has this perspective at the back of it.

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145 comments

  2. Tertium Squid

    1. Trump’s makeup artist should have a statue in their honor. He looked younger than Walz.
    2. Trump is a consummate entertainer, but not a versatile one and it’s clear that he is predictable. ABC prep people guessed he would bring up “cat food,” of all things, and they were ready for it.
    3. Trump helped Harris by giving her such a low bar to get over. She just didn’t have to look like a stupid person.
    4. We already knew that Trump CAN speak in complete sentences, and now we know Harris can as well.
    5. Whining about the refs is something losers do. Democrats are ebullient and Republicans are coping hard. But none of them are undecided, so…

    1. pjay

      Re whining about the refs: I absolutely think Trump’s use of right-wing fear-mongering BS should be called out. But of course the “fact checking” was one-sided. The moderators’ actual interest in “objectivity” was demonstrated in asking Trump if he “wanted Russia to win” in Ukraine – twice. It was a pre-planned trap question. Though Trump did try to avoid the trap by answering that he wanted to end the fighting, he of course could not respond truthfully – that Ukraine could not “win,” that the US wanted the war to continue and sabotaged earlier peace efforts, that the US/NATO “provoked” the invasion, etc. Rather, he gave a “weak,” “pro-Putin” response which fit the narrative about Trump (I’ve seen this description of Trump’s answer in the media more than once).

      In terms of a lie with potentially disastrous global consequences, I’d say Harris’ suggestion that Putin wants a reverse Operation Barbarossa through Europe is infinitely worse that Trump’s pet-eating immigrants. I’d sure like to see the “moderators” call that one out. Maybe the Grayzone guys can host the next debate.

      2. Tertium Squid

        That the pet thing isn’t so bad just shows a certain amount of progress our society has made over the centuries. A rumor like that in 1550 could have resulted in a bunch of dead Jews, and in 1850 a bunch of dead slaves. Now it’s just “weird”.

        1. hk

          Certainly, (probably) fictitious dead pets are far more important than a milliion real dead Slavs and Semites in Ukraine and Palestine, right? Some progress. (apologies for the harsh language).

          1. Tertium Squid

            Interesting, but I don’t think that will make people feel bad that they’re avoiding pogroms in in their neighborhoods, or that the cats of America are actually okay.

            1. Amfortas the Hippie

              the cats are fine…in fact, ima gonna hafta thin my particular herd at some point…in the same manner as i thin the raccoons.
              i do not look forward to it.

              that said…i disconnected the noosefeed several days ago…been wandering in Pointmag.com, and all the various and sundry hotties in the philosophy section of twitter(as in actual hot philosophy professors,lol).
              plugging in, this afternoon, and i almost spat out my cat.
              it’s even crazier than i could have imagined when i unplugged.
              and a couple of y’all’s offerings over the last week got saved and distributed.
              like the Monthly Review thing and Wolfe’s thing, especially.
              wish i had money to send y’all….(kamalalladingdong’s machinery is continually texting me, and i talk back)…but you’ll hafta make do with my intermittent ejaculations of overselfeducated hill people wit and observation….and the long-standing invitation to come on by when yer in texas and let me put you up and cook for you.
              late spring is the best…altho i do like june,lol.

              1. hk

                Incidentally, this was in the news last year and continued into this one:

                https://cnycentral.com/news/local/teen-who-admitted-to-killing-beloved-manlius-swan-faye-sentenced

                For some reason, this was not very easy to find on Google (I wonder…)., although I remember it received a good deal of attention when the incident originally happened. While the way Trump described it is a bit nutty and whether anything of this sort took place in Springfield, OH, specifically, is not clear (it doesn’t seem too plausible), it’s not something that can be dismissed out of hand as “fake news” if only because something like that did happen, along the general line of the alleged OH incident.

                I don’t think it warrants people jumping on the gun and think that the immigrants are evil cat (probably imaginary) or swan (actually true) eaters. Rather, we are getting large inflows of people who are not being assimiliated readily into American culture/way of thought and this leads to social problems.

                Furthermore, (and I’m getting on a soapbox here) the “multiculturalism” trend seems to be getting in the way of acculturation (this, I speak from firsthand experience) often by erecting barriers to people from other cultures who want to assimilate by assigning them into their cultural boxes.

                1. Amfortas the Hippie

                  yeah. swan is rather tasty…not as greasy as geese.
                  lol.
                  i hear horseflesh is pretty rockin, as well…but we can do neither in the usa, home of the brave(tm)
                  and i know ive told the story here of the chinese place in west texas that got caught cooking strays,lol.

                  and anyways…hungry people will eat…in whatever way they can.
                  ive eaten seagull, egret, and all sorts of bugs and reptiles and “trash fish” in my time.
                  bring out the fainting couches,get that apparently necessary part over with, and move on.

                  1. Wukchumni

                    For some gawdawful reason the scummiest of bottom feeding fish-the lowly mud sucking Carp, is what makes for a traditional Xmas dinner if you’re in Czechia.

                    I’m thinking there must have been a serious shortage of anything that tasted better, way back in the day.

                    1. Amfortas the Hippie

                      when my hip was dying, i rebelled by becomin an avid fly fisher king…canoe and all(likely accelerating my skeletons decline)…and in a certain pool, below a rapids on the Llano River, west of James River Crossing…there was a 4 foot grass carp that just sat there.
                      i tried everything,lol…coffee beans glued onto a hook…grass from upstream glued on a hook…woollybuggers the bass liked…
                      and could not interest that fish in anything.
                      i finally waded in…naked, of course(wearing the river)…and counted coup by touching the damned thing…so unconcerned as he was about whatever i was doing.
                      all this, because 1. ive never tasted carp…and 2. i’d read that my Czech people catch and then keep those things in a bathtub til xmas

                    2. Wukchumni

                      My mom would make Carp for my dad and her, and Wiener Schnitzel for the kids on Xmas, we weren’t touching that thing and no way was it going in our mouths, what looked like a pet goldfish on steroids.

                    3. hk

                      It’s the dish served to new mothers in Korea, traditionally, or so I hear. (I think this has to do with lack of protein in Korean diet long time ago)

                      Mother never had any carp before she had me and never after that. She says it’s absolutely horrible…and thinks that new mothers went through enough to suffer through something like that. But, having been out of circulation with anything Korean for about 30 years, I have no idea if it’s still a thing. It does seem that it’s still thought to be good eats, at least by some Koreans, though…

                    4. Martin Oline

                      My dad said you cut out the reddish strip of flesh down the side and they are fine. He would pickle then but then his father was Swedish so he had weird tastes.
                      Help! I’m caught in a spaghetti farm!

                  2. Michael Fiorillo

                    Back in the day, Jewish bubbes (grandmothers) would keep large live carps in the bathtub prior to making gefilte fish. They are very bony and hard to clean, so I’ve heard.

              2. Catidude

                Amfortas, please tell me you spay & neuter (TNR)? There seem to be kind souls all over who help with this. I hope you’ll look for some resources instead of killing cats, if I’m reading you correctly. Thank you.

            2. upstater

              In the late 70s my parents lived in East New Orleans near several NASA and DOD plants at Michoud that were basically shut down. There were hundreds or even thousands of cheap, empty apartments on Chef Highway that previously housed now departed workers. It was a gruesome subdivision in the middle of a swamp.

              Enter thousands of Vietnamese boat people refugees to fill those empty apartments. The miles of bayous were full of domestic and feral ducks. People fed them stale bread and kibble. In less than a year hundreds of ducks all disappeared. It also was common for wandering pet dogs to disappear. Some dogs were stolen from backyards.

              This isn’t a fictional story. It happened and people were very upset. Most Vietnamese are now prosperous and enculturated, but tensions remain in the near shore fisheries. Sport fishermen claim large groups (eg, 10 on a small boat) of immigrants use sport licenses to catch redfish and snapper to circumvent restrictions on commercial fishing. A few get busted and then return to the water.

              1. Amfortas the Hippie

                i stayed in “me show” for a time.
                all those plants you mention were overgrown husks by then.
                late 80s, early 90s.
                ive lately come to understand that a whole lot of places that i lived in, partied in or am otherwise associated with no longer exist,lol…swallowed by the gulf of mexico.
                other places, like morgan city, are further from the gulf than when i was there.
                weird.

    2. urdsama

      As to point 5, why give someone you hate (ABC’s attitude towards Trump) more ammo? It was such a blatant bad faith display that it goes beyond the trite “only losers whine about the refs” attitude.

      1. Carolinian

        I didn’t watch but endorse your point. There’s no excuse for our current MSM.

        There used to be something called The Fairness Doctrine that said companies that enjoy the limited franchise of the public airwaves have to be even handed–especially when it comes to our politics. It’s true that not many people still watch over the air TV, but being one of those broadcasters still gives ABC a lot more reach than some internet site. After all they just hosted the likely only debate.

        1. spud

          i remember when the idiot newt gingrich was hot after the doctrine, and bill clinton smiled, let me help you get rid of it.

          of course we see the results. with tacticians like newt, no wonder the nafta democrats keep rolling them.

          most rich powerful people think that it will never happen to them, so to hell with the constitution.

          but that’s not how fascists think. just because you are rich and powerful, that does not make you special.

      2. Tertium Squid

        If he knew he had a hostile moderator it would have benefited him to be more circumspect. No one made him bring up Haitians eating cats. That’s an own-goal, period, and to your point I agree ABC didn’t hurt him any worse by debunking it live.

        1. Lambert Strether Post author

          > No one made him bring up Haitians eating cats

          You are correct, it was an own-goal (fed to him by Vance, too). But see the post for the context, which naturally neither candidate, and neither party, nor the press is talking about.

          Luntz, in the thread linked to here, also says that this Trump is not the Trump of 2016. I think that’s because Trump is now embubbled in a professional campaign environment. The Trump of 2016, flying round the country in a plane filled with a few oddballs, and doing A/B testing in front of the crowds, was a lot more in touch with voters (i.e., “populist’) than the Trump of 2020.

          1. Tertium Squid

            And maybe that’s the answer. It’s one thing to be wrong, but it’s quite another to go on about something so inconsequential even if it was true.

            He made it worse by doubling down about seeing it on TV, like that’s all the proof you need. Watching TV is a passive activity, not a boss move and definitely not the mental picture you want to encourage. Conjures images of everyone’s racist uncle yelling at cable news in the nursing home.

          3. OliverN

            That was what I couldn’t figure out. How could anyone have expected Trump to come out with this comment, it should have been out of left-field and you would assume a stunned silence. But the moderators were very quick to come back to him and fact check him… how? Eg if it was his usual ramble about abortion after the birth of a baby I wouldn’t be surprised, or his comments about the election being stolen. You can prepare for those, he makes the same claims over and over. How were they prepared to challenge his animal eating comments as quickly as they did?

            The other great thing is the moderators challenging him twice on this comment gives Kamala a good minute or so to pick and choose her next comments, rather than having to improvise off the cuff. More than one way that a moderator can advantage one candidate over the other.

            1. Nikkikat

              As a person who lived in right wing Orange County California for years, this cat stuff has been going on there ever since the Vietnamese refugees came here after the war. I had multiple neighbors with flag poles. They all fervently believed that the Asian neighbors ate their cats, even though there was plenty of proof that the cats fell victim to coyotes on a nightly basis. You could not get them to listen. They also claimed the Hispanics ate goats that were cooked on the barbecue. I learned to ignore and just nod my head at this looney nonsense.

            2. steppenwolf fetchit

              Vance had mentioned ” Haitians eating cats” long enough before the debate so as to give the fact checkers time to fact-check it. And maybe the fact checkers thought that since Trump’s VP-candidate Vance said it, that Trump would say it soon enough.

              So that’s how they were prepared so well for Trump’s Haitians and cats remark. Because Vance warned them ahead of time. So it was no surprise.

    3. IM Doc

      Again, FWIW, interesting day in the doctor’s lounge today. Most everyone had seen at least parts of the debate or certainly the highlight reel this AM. Including myself, there are 3 MDs that I know of that are what would be called undecided. All 3 of us are Dems. All 3 of us no longer all that interested in the PMC neoliberal totalitarian approach. All 3 of us really not into Donald Trump. It became immediately apparent during lunch today that the other two have decided to or are leaning heavily in voting for Trump. I know that is certainly where I am as well.

      I do recall in 2016 how the media went on for days about how Hillary had just humiliated Trump after each of their debates. We all know how that ended. It is becoming increasingly apparent that these debates are becoming increasingly meaningless.

      And I think something very important is being overlooked. The undecideds seem to have not been assuaged too much with the Kamala performance last night. Of course, the neoliberal partisans are in heaven today – but that is not where the election will be won.

      1. Clem

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2024/presidential-debate-voter-poll/

        Harris appears to have solidified the support of voters who were leaning in her direction. Among 12 voters who said they would “probably” back her before the debate, five shifted to “definitely” voting for her and the rest said they still lean toward her. Among the nine voters who leaned toward Trump and answered the post-debate question, none shifted to definitely supporting him. Two said they will probably vote for Harris and one plans to vote for a third party.

        2. hk

          Wonder what the demographics of the panelists were. Focus grouping is a complex art and extrapolating from that even more so. I tend to think that good surveys and proper analysis thereof beats focus groups if only because of the sample size (and selection issues–in expt design sense, I mean).

      3. chris

        And what I’m hearing among my office of all graduate level or better consulting professionals is how Kamala proved that she should win. These colleagues will not doubt accept Team Blue winning as the correct result because of the debate. Any contrary result will have to be the fault of cheating or other shenanigans.

        I think I’m going to build a bunker to hide in during voting season. And from that Gilbert article this AM it may already be too late…

        1. Lambert Strether Post author

          > Kamala proved that she should win

          Among a class of people aching to sing Hossanah in praise of her, yes.

          We have yet to see how this translates to polls (and focus groups), which gives a better indication of where the winning is being done.

          1. Amfortas the Hippie

            as if to confirm your assertion with my limited sample, yes…my mom is in liberalgasm mode about kamel’s (#2 ringwraith) demolition of the orange one.
            i bit my tongue bloody that day, in my limited interactions with her.

    4. Martin Oline

      6. Believe people when they tell you who they are. Kamala has said several times in the last month she wants to have the most lethal military on earth. The Biden administration has been quite successful in ensuring the CDC is the most lethal agency in the federal government. Now are they gaming ‘limited’ nuclear war? Anyone want to find out?

    2. The Rev Kev

      A blackout of Starliner’s guidance system during reentry doesn’t sound good. I think that returning astronauts might need that.

    1. .Tom

      And member the time Sarah Palin had notes written on the palm of her hand? Radio controlled debate puppetry is lame and cheating but I don’t have a problem with notes. Take a binder with you if it helps. I don’t care.

        1. Amfortas the Hippie

          i reckon that the rules(decided by?) should allow notes.
          its a rather complex world, after all, even if you exclude all the bullshit.

        2. Neutrino

          Too bad, as it would’ve been fun to see Trump with some documented Harris quotes, or vice versa. That would eliminate the suspect moderator fact-fumbling.

          Once again Blazing Saddles comes through.

          Pardon me while I whip this out.

  7. Mark Gisleson

    I don’t use Google but it’s always been my understanding that Yandex is just Google plus more pages from non-English speaking countries. I’ve been pulling up Internet Archive links alongside Bandcamp and Deezer search results for at least a month.

  8. Cat Burglar

    It was difficult getting a Novavax shot last year, too.

    You had to call the pharmacy and talk to a staff member to check if they had a supply and then schedule — online scheduling was not possible. According to the pharmacist, they only order a limited supply (so it is key to check on availability), and they only thaw out enough doses for the scheduled vaccinations (which is why you can’t do a walk-in).

    When dealing with the pharmacy phone system, just go right to the “talk to a pharmacist” selection, or you will not get an appointment. I had luck at CVS (and a 260-mile round trip drive), but a friend got it at Costco.It was a crazy experience with a lot of false starts, just to get vaccinated — you can’t really call it a system, just a dysfuctional provision of services, and it is not made with you in mind.

    1. B Flat

      Last year, CVS website stated Novavax was available at my local CVS in NYC but that turned out not to be the case. They sent me to another CVS, but that also didn’t have Novavax. I finally succeeded in getting it at a small independent pharmacy, so when this year’s supply comes in I know where to go.

      1. Cat Burglar

        We had that problem, too. As the pharmacists explained it, they are just sent a batch, without regard to their requests. When it runs out, that’s it, until the next batch is sent to them. The decisions are being made somewhere higher up in the organization.

        1. Amfortas the Hippie

          how does all that ^^^ fit into the triumphant story of capitalism being the better allocater of resources?
          i jess caint see it through the foggy eyes of my likely long covid engendered hyper allergy that never frelling quits….as well as my weirdness(and cat-eating ways) manifested in not wanting to take the mRNA things anymores?

          (mutters: man, i aint never gonna finish this cat if you’uns don stop makin me laugh…)

          1. Cat Burglar

            I am not aware of any analyst that has said this, but the question is, where are the resources being allocated to?

            The resources are going to produce financial returns. Production of washing machines that last two years or vaccines and their sale in a product market are just epiphenomena leading up to the real market competition: the financial market. The other markets are just subordinate, they aren’t where or why the resources are being allocated. That’s why the products and services, like trying to get vaccinated, are so poor.

    2. steppenwolf fetchit

      It almost seems designed to stop you from getting Novavax, and to herd you into getting an mRNA para-vaccinoid instead . . . doesn’t it?

      1. Cat Burglar

        You’d have to be a fool not to consider that possibility. On the other hand, I am not sure how we could verify it. I just keep it in mind as point for gathering further information, to see if it confirms or not.

        But if you compare it to an ideal system for providing a vaccine to people with bad reactions to mRNA vaccines, and to as many people as possible during a public health crisis, then you can see that this system was not designed with interests of people who need vaccinations in mind.

        My guess is that it was the least cost alternative for vaccinating a niche market of highly motivated buyers — that would be the most honest version. It could be that the relative powers of vaccine makers determined who got to sell the most vaccines to the chain pharmacies — that would be the cartel hypothesis. Then there’s the one you put forward, the policy hypothesis — that this outcome for consumers is deliberate, as we all wonder.

        That is my “view from below” method. It works well with foreign policy/military/ covert ops stories, too. You have to accept that you may not know for a while, maybe a long while, what’s going on. Often you have to use indirect or not professionally sanctioned methods to figure things out.

        1. Amfortas the Hippie

          of course, thinking/admitting to oneself, that “thinning the herd” is a real policy goal at some obscure high level also makes the world make a lil bit more sense.
          “useless eater” has been a thing, and sometimes an obsession, among that set for a long,long time.

          1. Cat Burglar

            We had a joke during my days as a mountain guide about clients and safety —
            1. Always act as if the client is trying to kill you.
            2. The client is trying to kill you.
            Something like that applies to elite policy.

    3. Jen

      The good news is that this year the vaccines are being distributed in single dose vials. Finding it is still an adventure. According to CVS’ website it is available at all locations. But you can’t schedule it on line. And good luck getting a pharmacist if you call. My current strategy is to attempt a walk in at the location with the most appointments available on line and hope for the best.

      Yes, it does seem like the system is designed to prevent you from getting it.

      1. chris

        That was my experience too. If you called them, they said to leave it as a nite that you wanted the NovaVax, and that all the stores had it. But when you showed up, because putting the NovaVax down was an option on the form, they insisted you take the mRNA options. I had to make a big stink about it before they “found” some NovaVax.

  9. Rick

    On Conor Browne’s analogy, I appreciate the point of non-judgement. Another aspect of AA/AlAnon is the idea that change has to come from within, not from external sources.

    Not sure how either of these ideas translate to our lived world, but I do think the ideas are worth thinking about. The denial and minimization runs deep in people’s souls, as does the urge to judge and change people.

    Problem is, our entire society is being harmed by the behavior, not just individual lives (as bad as that is). Unfortunately it really is our monkeys and our circus.

    I could sure use a new ‘timeline’ about now.

  10. Dezert Dog

    its always nice to see the rabbitbrush but….. it is a reminder to get out the winter gear because it always snows on the rabbitbrush.

  11. Carolinian

    So it’s Genocide Taylor now? Hope her cats get better treatment than the Gazans.

    Perhaps she can have the Cheneys over for brunch.

        1. Amfortas the Hippie

          nah.
          cheneys should be fed to the poor…in iraq, if you want a real balance in the universe.

            1. Amfortas the Hippie

              theres exceptions, just like in kosher, for the starving.
              prolly more apropos to have the whole extended clan making mudbricks in a pit somewhere around basra…or fallujah….

              but there is no justice in the world.
              we must be sated by the now fact that the democratic party…erstwhile of FDR…has now welcomed both Lil George, and now the Man in the Yellow Hat , into their big frelling tent.
              frumkins is in there, too…and a whole lot of other war criminals and enablers…how long before the combined girth, smell of sulfur and the mechanical breathing noises drive more regular folks out of that tent and into the other one?

    2. The Rev Kev

      Swift would have done better saying that voting for her is a matter of privacy. But as she is a billionaire, I guess that there is no real downside for her anymore in committing to one party or another.

  12. Samuel Conner

    > and this view comes perilously close to creating a two-tier society of the elect and the damned; something I tend to do myself!

    I am troubled by this thought. But the thought also occurs that, however I think about it, there really is a kind of “two-tiered” society. One “tier” really would like to not become debilitated and/or die prematurely and is willing to exert itself toward that end. Another “tier” really doesn’t want to be inconvenienced by the precautions required to significantly delay debilitation and/or premature death.

    I don’t like it, but I didn’t create it and I don’t want to join the other tier for the sake of whatever (perhaps temporary) benefits would accrue to me for joining it.

  13. griffen

    Innovation and who would do such a thing…South Park had it covered. Hilarious, the high jinks of at the time Steve Jobs pointing the finest print on the consent and agreement information for each user. Best read every line, dear user of Apple products! \sarc

    It is a “funny” send up of an awful by all counts horror movie.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HumancentiPad

  14. Lambert Strether Post author

    Patient readers, I have added a lot of debate material, much more orty and scrappy than usual. Some of it (Springfield especially) called for actual research, today is more like a series of short posts than usual. Enjoy.

    P.S. The portion of the transcript I marked up may have been early, but it seemed much more structured than the usual Trump presentation, making me wonder if a lot of the reaction about how chaotic and off-balance he was — due to Kamala’s clever jabs — was (also) canned.

    P.P.S. There’s a lot of material I couldn’t get to; Ukraine, election 2020, and Covid especially, and an examination of what Kamala’s policies really are (small ball at best, I would say). Perhaps tomorrow. I would want to understand her views, if any, on antitrust, because that’s one of the few good things the Biden administration has done.

    1. mrsyk

      Here’s Jill Stein’s debate response. It’s packed with policy. Hat tip to fellow commenter juliania who posted it on the debate thread.

      Why not vote for Stein?

  16. steppenwolf fetchit

    . . . ” Perceptive. I am sympathetic to this view. However, in my view sobriety also demands restraining judgment over one’s fellows (“There but for the grace of God go I”) and this view comes perilously close to creating a two-tier society of the elect and the damned; something I tend to do myself! One of the great things about A.A. is that it created a method for sobriety that at least many have been able to travel; it’s a big ask, but the Covid Conscious community has not done that. ” . . .

    I am even closer to the vision of the elect versus the damned than you are, as you have probably gathered from past comments of mine. On the one hand, I agree with you that it isn’t very nice, and the Covid Conscious community should try to be prepared to do what you suggest.

    On the other hand, alchoholism is not contagious and/or infectious the way covid is. You can’t get alcoholism just by breathing the stale alcohol-filled air in a room full of drunken alcoholics. And there is no risk of a drunken rock concert being a superspreader event for alcoholism.

    But covid is contagious and infectious. That means that the Covid Conscious have to protect their own biological selves and their own biological survival against an Establishment still applying Weaponised Denial Management and against that Establishment’s active and passive personal covid-spreading supporters. If you want to be a helper, you have to stay healthy enough to actually be able to help. So the Covid Conscious will have to help eachother help eachother stay safe from covid infection long enough to even be able to solve the problem of how to reach out to the currently Covid Denialist and welcome them over to the ranks of the Covid Conscious.

    And to put it more harshly, I agree with Samuel Conner above. And I would put it even more harshly than that. I will not permit the Typhoid Mary Covid-Leper health-eating zombies who walk among us and rule over us to force their disease upon me.

    In that vein, I can think of an effective chantable slogan for Covid Conscious protest-demonstrations.

    “You! Will Not! in-FECT US!” ( exactly rhythm-scans with ” You! Will Not! re-PLACE US!” ).

    1. Amfortas the Hippie

      well said.
      altho i think that the denialist faction has already won.
      not everbody can be a hermit like i am.
      i can, because i built up my autarkik wherewithal…or at least a lot of it…long before this particular event.
      i am located in the very poorest american cohort…if you reckon that net worth and income are indicators of wealth, at least,lol.’
      but i saw a lot of this coming(dysfunction), and had my own debilitated future to look forward to…so i planned…and implemented!…accordingly, as best i could.
      i currently eat more gourmet fare than almost all of the upper middle class people i know irl.

  17. Christopher Smith

    Re: the debate

    I say Harris won on the grounds that she did a better job of sticking to canned answers (which sometimes addressed the questions) and scripted attacks. I was amazed by Trump’s complete lack of discipline and inability to resist being goaded into saying stupid stuff. IMO he could have won if he had let the personal stuff go and stayed on the attack, especially with substantive material. I am actually suprised that his lack of discipline was so atrocious that it suprised me.

    Also, my understanding is that cats taste awful and that they are absolutely the last thing anyone is going to eat.

    1. Lambert Strether Post author

      > I say Harris won on the grounds that she did a better job of sticking to canned answers (which sometimes addressed the questions) and scripted attacks.

      I would agree that Harris won on points (and neither delivered a knockout blow).

      But I don’t know if that translates to votes. We will see the polls shortly, and assuming they’re not gamed, I’m betting they will show no change; the Democrats and their assets in the press must feel like they’re pushing on a string.

      It is pretty amazing when you think of it: The “establishment” (CEOs, generals, the press, the spooks, the PMC as a whole, and a gaggle of Republican officials and electeds) is almost entirely on Kamala’s side (modulo a few squillionaries and their hirelings, I grant). And yet the vote remains approxinately 50/50. What does that tell you?

      1. Darthbobber

        None of her zingers would have had any effect of Trump were capable of responding a la Reagan. Most of them would have been well met with a “there you go again”, and back on message.

        1. Lambert Strether Post author

          > None of her zingers would have had any effect of Trump were capable of responding a la Reagan

          That’s true. Then again, who has the better President? (This is actually a serious question)

      2. Pat

        Now flooded with images of a gaggle of media, entertainment, corporate and political “stars” pushing Kamala in a weighted plastic bubble up a giant hill only to have it roll down just as they reach the summit. Just call them Sisyphus Redux. (Dear Gods, it is amusing but not really enough of a punishment for their wanton destruction of …well…you name it.)

      3. hk

        In some sense, the polls have just been amazing. Practically nothing moved the needle. No real convention bumps for either party. No boost for Trump after the assassination attempt. There was a sizable move after replacement of Biden by Harris, which seemed too coordinated that I still have some trouble believing on the whole (there are demographics that I can certainly believe would shift bigly, though)

        Speaking of polls, NYT/Siena polls have a really nice set of tables (although not very user friendly). Still trying to navigate the site correctly, though, for older crosstabs….

        https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/09/08/us/politics/times-siena-poll-likely-electorate-crosstabs.html

      4. ChrisFromGA

        I am probably guilty of hitting the hopium pipe for a few tokes, but I think the Cheney endorsement may have been a bridge too far for a lot of independents along with true progressives, and will end up hurting her.

    2. Jeremy Grimm

      Cats may be an acquired taste but dogs are supposed to taste very like lamb. The Koreans once ate a special dog soup on certain hot days in Summer. The soup was supposed to boost virility. I saw dog haunches for sale in the street market at Dongdaemun in the middle 1980s.

      1. Tom Doak

        I saw a truck full of dogs in China (Hainan province) years ago and had little doubt where they were headed. Hainan is a vacation spot so there are restaurants catering to people from all regions of China. There was one restaurant close to our work site that we were consistently steered away from.

    3. Martin Oline

      What you eat is probably more of a cultural thing but I wonder what degree economics play in eating strays. In my neighborhood in south Florida over the last year two different women have knocked on my door asking if I had seen their pet turtle who had apparently wondered away. Both were concerned someone had taken it for food but did not have any specific culprits in mind.
      When I lived in Northern Kalifornia several people mentioned that when the Vietnamese boat people came in the late 1970’s the ducks and squirrels in Golden Gate park disappeared.

    1. Lee

      My guess is that she gets infusions of the currently effective prophylactic monoclonal antibody Pemgarda (Pemivibart) that makes one essentially immune to Covid for a period of several months at a time.

      1. Pat

        He needs the distraction, the investigation into his campaign finances is expanding and speeding up. Plus the same people that want it Nassau want it in the city.

  19. Sub-Boreal

    Since it is September 11th, I’m reflecting on the thousands of Chileans who died during and after the military coup on that date in 1973. During my days in grad school in the 70s, I met several Chileans who had taken refuge in Canada. They never spoke about 1973 and I never pressed them to talk about their experiences.

    More than 40 years later, I socialized a bit with a Chilean couple who had come to my British Columbia community for employment; the husband was an office neighbour. I met his wife when they invited me into their home for dinner. Some months later, when September 11th came around again, I got an email out of the blue from her. It didn’t go into personal details, but she commented on how hard those anniversaries of the coup were for her.

    Just now, I was curious to see what a quick search would bring up on the occasion of yet another anniversary of the coup.

    I suppose that we are to take comfort from the Office of the Historian, Foreign Service Institute, United States Department of State, that “there was little evidence to link the U.S. Government to covert support of Pinochet’s coup.

    This search also turned up something quite unexpected. The website for the National September 11 Memorial & Museum, actually has a page (undated, with no author indicated, but apparently from around 2011) on “The Other 9/11”, which includes the following:

    I recalled the other day something I’d forgotten for many years — there was another fateful 9/11 -but in Chile. That other tragic 9/11 was the day in 1973 when the Chilean military, commanded by General Augusto Pinochet, with the encouragement, knowledge, and assistance of the U.S. government, overthrew the legitimately elected government of Salvador Allende.
    …
    A few days after the coup took place in Chile, the ailing poet Pablo Neruda – who, in my estimation, is the greatest poet of the 20th century – passed away, from a literally and figuratively broken heart – broken over the fact that his beloved Chile, the only actual democracy at the time in South America, had joined the infamous ranks of nations oppressed by their militaries.
    …
    So for me there are two 9/11’s that I’d rather never have undergone…the first, in 1973, that I experienced indirectly through news accounts and through my knowledge of and admiration for a great poet and his work; and the second, in 2001, which I encountered viscerally through my eyes, as I looked out the window of my office only blocks from the World Trade Center; encountered through my ears, as I heard the chaotic, frightening and frightful noises of that morning while I walked quickly but pensively toward South Ferry to catch one of the last boats leaving for Staten Island before service was temporarily suspended; and encountered even through my nose as I smelled the fires raging on that terrible day and smoldering for weeks afterward on my way to and from work.

    May the victims of both 9/11’s never be forgotten, and may all the perpetrators of such evil, and their enablers, finally be brought to justice, whoever and wherever they are.

    1. Michael Fiorillo

      My understanding is that there is credible, if circumstantial, evidence that Neruda was murdered.

    2. Cassandra

      May the victims of both 9/11’s never be forgotten, and may all the perpetrators of such evil, and their enablers, finally be brought to justice, whoever and wherever they are.

      Well, in the year since the last anniversary, Henry Kissinger at last shuffled off this mortal coil. A start, I suppose.

  20. JM

    Threadreader link for the Zero-Covid Advocacy study takedown, for those of us without a Twitter/X account: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1833520700898086977.html

    Same for the Pommes Anna thread, since that looks tasty: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1833601623211250090.html

    I’m roughly in line with steppenwolf fetchit and Samuel Conner, on the addiction analogy for COVID denial. Though I don’t know that it necessitates judgment on the person. I recognize the amount of social pressure that’s on people to conform, and how unpleasant they think having to consider COVID on an ongoing basis is. That’s a very difficult combination to overcome, especially when the organizations that are supposed to be looking out for you on this have instead thrown people into the meat grinder for more profits.

    I’m no marketer, but I feel like there are some threads to pull that could get us to a more broadly effective message for at least COVID Awareness for the average person, but I don’t know if we can get there from here.

  21. Craig H.

    Kamala’s on-screen reactions were smug, smirking, and contemptuous throughout.

    I could only stand it for 34 minutes. I thought the smugness, smirks, contempt, and especially the eye roll were all precisely measured. It seemed to me that part was as rehearsed as any of the spoken words. I bet a top Hollywood body language coach was on the debate prep team.

    Is there a professional eye roll analysis out there on the internet?

    1. lyman alpha blob

      You are braver than me – I had to tap out before that. That stony, haughty, supercilious look she kept casting at the Donald made it look like she was posing for a spot on Mt. Rushmore. Badly.

    2. Screwball

      The democrats are Hollywood. A giant production that benefits only themselves. Combine Hollywood, politics, money, and out comes the greatest bullshit machine in the history of the world.

      Carlin would have a field day.

  22. Watt4Bob

    One of the great things about A.A. is that it created a method for sobriety that at least many have been able to travel; it’s a big ask, but the Covid Conscious community has not done that.

    The AA community doesn’t face public confrontations over their sobriety. If AA members could be as easily recognized publicly as the mask-wearing Covid Conscious, their ‘method of sobriety‘ might, probably would be more challenging.

    And for basically the same reasons.

  23. lyman alpha blob

    RE: “We don’t actually know the result of the bout until we have polling…”

    I predict a slight dead cat bounce for Kamalorama.

    On a related note, I tuned in to the sportsball talk this morning to try to avoid politics for a bit, but they turned to debate discussion and of course honed in on the dead pets bit. One brought up the news of a slew of dead cats in the Bangor area, which is apparently true – https://www.bangordailynews.com/2024/08/24/bangor/bangor-environment/bangor-residents-divided-missing-cats-joam40zk0w/

    17 cats gone missing without a trace over two months in one neighborhood. No idea if this story had anything to do with dead cats making the presidential debates. If it’s not coyotes as one person in the article suggests, and I don’t think it is based on the coyotes I’ve witnessed in my own neighborhood, it sounds like Bangor might have a really dangerous budding killer on their hands. Yikes!

    2. Pat

      There is another possible explanation, although I hope not. When I was growing up one of the towns we lived had an epidemic of missing pets, cats and small dogs. Turned out there was a flourishing dog fighting ring in the county. They needed the smaller animals as live bait for training.
      Torture of kidnapped beloved family members in my mind, it is part of the reason I want dog (and cock) fighting treated as the heinous crime it is.

  24. CitizenGuy

    Re: The Debate

    Hi Lambert and others! I watched the debate last night while consuming a lot of PBR and KFC (seemed sufficiently patriotic). However, in my grease-induced trance, I think I missed Kamala’s response to Trump’s accusation she bungled negotiations between Zelenski and Putin 3 days prior to Russia crossing into Ukraine. Very interesting, if true, but there’s the rub.

    Muir, ever-playing the role of grand inquisitor, tried to shut down Trump’s thesis by asking Kamala a simple question “Have you ever met Putin?” Myself and my assembled friends and family don’t recall her saying, “no” in her long, rambling response. I know it’s against site rules to assign homework, so please don’t think I’m asking anyone the task of researching this. However, I was just curious if there was any truth to Trump’s accusation? Where did this even come from? I mean, I wouldn’t expect Biden to have given Kamala an important job like trying to forestall a conflict between Russia and Ukraine — especially given the Biden “family business” dealings in Ukraine. But with most rumors, there’s usually a nugget of truth somewhere in there. I’m just curious what it is.

    1. Lambert Strether Post author

      > Muir, ever-playing the role of grand inquisitor, tried to shut down Trump’s thesis by asking Kamala a simple question “Have you ever met Putin?” Myself and my assembled friends and family don’t recall her saying, “no” in her long, rambling response.

      I have a long list of things to look at, so I will ask the readers: Does anyone know the answer?

      1. CitizenGuy

        I found this in the ABC transcript.

        FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: And that’s the kind of talent we have with her. She’s worse than Biden. In my opinion, I think he’s the worst president in the history of our country. She goes down as the worst vice president in the history of our country. But let me tell you something. She is a horrible negotiator. They sent her in to negotiate. As soon as they left Putin did the invasion.

        DAVID MUIR: President Trump, thank you. You did bring up something, you said she went to negotiate with Vladimir Putin. Vice President Harris, have you ever met Vladimir Putin, can you clarify tonight?

        VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Yet again, I said it at the beginning of this debate, you’re going to hear a bunch of lies coming from this fella. And that is another one. When I went to meet with President Zelenskyy, I’ve now met with him over five times. The reality is, it has been about standing as America always should, as a leader upholding international rules and norms. As a leader who shows strength, understanding that the alliances we have around the world are dependent on our ability to look out for our friends and not favor our enemies because you adore strongmen instead of caring about democracy. And that is very much what is at stake here. The President of the United States is commander-in-chief. And the American people have a right to rely on a president who understands the significance of America’s role and responsibility in terms of ensuring that there is stability and ensuring we stand up for our principles and not sell them for the benefit of personal flattery.

        —————

        So she never denied it explicitly, but sort of subtly suggests it’s untrue because Trump said it. Seems like Muir gave her an easy out. Wonder why she didn’t just shut it down?

    2. lyman alpha blob

      Didn’t see that part myself, but maybe Trump was referring to the Biden administration she’s part of rather than her personally? I can’t see her being sent on that errand either. Then with that question, the moderator would be giving her an easy out so she wouldn’t need to discuss the topic at all. From the little I did watch, it sure did appear that the moderators had thumbs on the scale, and the possibility of a new world war is such an unjoyful downer.

  25. Wukchumni

    Mountain High ski resort in Wrightwood is unfortunately being somewhat consumed by the Bridge Fire, 1 of 3 fires in SoCal totaling over 100k acres burnt in just a few days. The video is wild~

    https://www.powder.com/news/bridge-fire-mountain-high-video

    Last time I skied there 20 years ago with my brother-in-law, 4 fistfights broke out in the lift lines between aggravated LA snowboarders. To put things in proper perspective, i’ve never seen a fistfight at any other ski resort in my 45 years on the slopes.

  27. Pat

    Eating pets isn’t new, in the immortal words of Mrs Lovett:

    Mrs. Mooney has a pie shop!
    Does a business but I notice something weird.
    Lately all her neighbors’ cats have disappeared!
    Have to hand it to her —
    Wot I calls
    Enterprise
    Poppin’ pussies into pies!
    Wouldn’t do in my shop!
    Just the thought of it’s enough to make you sick!
    And I’m tellin’ you, them pussycats is quick!

    (RIP Stephan Sondheim and Angela Lansbury)
    There is an earlier bit about men eating dying animals in the street but just hearing Lansbury singing about the quick pussy cats in my head makes me smile.

    2. The Rev Kev

      But now you are starting to hear that there was no mandate and that it was all voluntary. Are they serious?

      1. hk

        Some of the same people are trying to convince us that Harris was not the vice president and had nothing to do with the current administration and all its deeds, while still calling her the vice president, even as they say exactly this… So there’s that.

  29. Wukchumni

    The debate was worse than a B movie
    In a country where they want to turn back time
    You go strolling through the crowd like an immigrant
    Contemplating a crime
    She comes out of the alley running
    Like a imagined colorful cautionary tale
    Don’t bother asking for explanations
    She’ll just tell you that she came for a meal
    In the year of eating the cat

    She doesn’t give you time for questions
    As she locks up the moggie in hers
    And you follow ’till your sense of which direction
    Completely disappears
    By the blue tiled walls near the market stalls
    There’s a hidden door she leads you to
    These days, she says, I feel my life
    Just like a river running through
    The year of eating the cat

    While she looks at you so cooly
    And her eyes shine like the moon in the sea
    She comes in incense and patchouli
    So you take her, to find what’s waiting inside
    The year of eating the cat

    Well morning comes along with indigestion
    And the hard working immigrants are gone
    And you’ve thrown away your choice you’ve lost your green card
    So you have to stay on
    But the drum-beat strains of the night remain
    In the rhythm of the newborn day
    You know sometime you’re bound to leave here
    But for now you’re going to stay
    In the year of eating the cat

    In the year of eating the cat

    Year of the Cat, by Al Stewart

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak_MTXQALa0

  30. Jason Boxman

    Five said they found Harris vague during the more than 90-minute debate on how she would improve the U.S. economy and deal with the high cost of living, a top concern for voters.

    LOL whut. She’s going to give us an Opportunity Economy. Clearly they weren’t paying attention. And this Economy is going to provide us with Opportunities. It will be great!

  31. Jason Boxman

    What you don’t see at [8] is that during the live “debate”, the moderator cut Trump off right there as out of time, and I remember this, because he rightly brought up that liberal Democrats branding him as an enemy of the state and of their democracy, it’s certainly possible someone might do “the deed” as the anarchists called it. I was curious what more he might have added, if not cut off. I wish he’d had more time to get further into this and lawfare, because it is repugnant and reminiscent of Nixon in terms of corruption, but way worse.

  32. Jason Boxman

    At Least Two Saudi Officials May Have Deliberately Assisted 9/11 Hijackers, New Evidence Suggests

    Surprise.

    Newly revealed information also raises questions about whether the FBI and CIA mishandled or downplayed evidence of the kingdom’s possible ties to the plotters.

    Given how tight the Bushes are with the Saudi ruling family, hardly a surprise we never got the truth, will probably never get the truth, about any involvement that they had in this.

    Instead we got Cheney telling us it was Iraq.

    I mean, this isn’t even new:

    How Saudi Arabia exports radical Islam (2015)

    We keep invading the wrong countries.

  33. upstater

    Yes, that Norfolk Southern of East Palestine notoriety…
    Norfolk Southern dismisses CEO Alan Shaw, promotes Chief Financial Officer Mark George to president and chief executive Trains

    >An investigation determined that Shaw and the NS chief legal officer were having a consensual relationship in violation of company policy

    It is nice to see that the CEO and General Counsel that knowingly broke ethics rules get canned. Good riddance. Unfortunately they are typical of the grossly overpaid C-suite monsters. Hoping Shaw’s wife gets a good divorce lawyer and cleans him out.

  34. Mikel

    So I checked out the NY Times link about the Springfield Haitians.
    The comments section was not what I expected for the NY Times.

    On another note, about the rising rents in Springfield…it’s just said the Haitians are “willing to pay more”, but from one of the interviews it also sounds like they are rolling deep to afford those rents.

  35. kareninca

    People can’t stop thinking or talking about the cat and duck eating thing. I can’t get it out of my brain; it has become a relentless brain worm. Someone posted on twitter that Trump did what he is best at, by instinct and by self-training, which is not winning a debate, but rather at “owning the room” and making the audience his “b—-hes.” Maybe this counts, since the story is not going away.

  36. AG

    German industry bosses increasingly panicky.

    from JUNGE WELT daily:

    “(…) around a fifth of the industrial value creation in the Federal Republic of Germany is under threat. This is the result of a study published on Tuesday in Berlin by the Federation of German Industries (BDI) and the capital-related German Economic Institute (IW).

    The “industrial location Germany” is “at a crossroads”, said BDI boss Siegfried Russwurm: “The risk of deindustrialization due to the silent migration and closure of many medium-sized companies in particular is continuously increasing and has already occurred in some cases.” In order to be internationally “competitive” in the future, according to the study’s authors, additional private and public investments of 1.4 trillion euros are needed by 2030. For example, for the climate-neutral transformation of “fossil” energy sectors. However, rapid economic stimulus programs are not a solution. On the other hand, a “big hit” must succeed so that Germany can reinvent itself as an economic power.
    (…)”.

    Good luck with that.
    If the US has to they might even team up with Martians to prevent that from happening.

    As NC suggested a couple of weeks ago: They won´t even shy away from abusing UFOs to win the election.
    And once that alien alliance stands it can and will be used against Europe.

    Unless of course the shady French can come up with a couple of aliens of their own.
    From Venus or somethin´.

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