2:00PM Water Cooler 10/7/2024

By Lambert Strether of Corrente.

Readers, while photographing today, I was stepping back to get my subject properly framed when I felt my foot strike emptiness. Then I fell backwards onto a concrete walkway. While falling, I cradled the camera with my body, so that’s alright, but I sprained my lower back badly. Sitting at my desk is not on. So I am retiring to my bed with some actual painkillers from the drugstore. I should be back in form tomorrow. Meanwhile, this is an open thread. –lambert

* * *

Contact information for plants: Readers, feel free to contact me at lambert [UNDERSCORE] strether [DOT] corrente [AT] yahoo [DOT] com, to (a) find out how to send me a check if you are allergic to PayPal and (b) to find out how to send me images of plants. Vegetables are fine! Fungi, lichen, and coral are deemed to be honorary plants! If you want your handle to appear as a credit, please place it at the start of your mail in parentheses: (thus). Otherwise, I will anonymize by using your initials. See the previous Water Cooler (with plant) here. From CG:

This is bee balm. Bee balm is one of my favorite flowers. Hummingbirds love it, and it’s invasive, so plant a little, get a lot. Bee balm also enables me to show of one of my very few bits of actual botanical knwowledge: Bee balm has a square stem, so it is in the mint family.

* * *

Readers: Water Cooler is a standalone entity not covered by the annual NC fundraiser. Material here is Lambert’s, and does not express the views of the Naked Capitalism site. If you see a link you especially like, or an item you wouldn’t see anywhere else, please do not hesitate to express your appreciation in tangible form. Remember, a tip jar is for tipping! Regular positive feedback both makes me feel good and lets me know I’m on the right track with coverage. When I get no donations for three or four days I get worried. More tangibly, a constant trickle of donations helps me with expenses, and I factor in that trickle when setting fundraising goals:

Here is the screen that will appear, which I have helpfully annotated:

If you hate PayPal, you can email me at lambert [UNDERSCORE] strether [DOT] corrente [AT] yahoo [DOT] com, and I will give you directions on how to send a check. Thank you!

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

This entry was posted in Guest Post, Water Cooler on by .

About Lambert Strether

Readers, I have had a correspondent characterize my views as realistic cynical. Let me briefly explain them. I believe in universal programs that provide concrete material benefits, especially to the working class. Medicare for All is the prime example, but tuition-free college and a Post Office Bank also fall under this heading. So do a Jobs Guarantee and a Debt Jubilee. Clearly, neither liberal Democrats nor conservative Republicans can deliver on such programs, because the two are different flavors of neoliberalism (“Because markets”). I don’t much care about the “ism” that delivers the benefits, although whichever one does have to put common humanity first, as opposed to markets. Could be a second FDR saving capitalism, democratic socialism leashing and collaring it, or communism razing it. I don’t much care, as long as the benefits are delivered. To me, the key issue — and this is why Medicare for All is always first with me — is the tens of thousands of excess “deaths from despair,” as described by the Case-Deaton study, and other recent studies. That enormous body count makes Medicare for All, at the very least, a moral and strategic imperative. And that level of suffering and organic damage makes the concerns of identity politics — even the worthy fight to help the refugees Bush, Obama, and Clinton’s wars created — bright shiny objects by comparison. Hence my frustration with the news flow — currently in my view the swirling intersection of two, separate Shock Doctrine campaigns, one by the Administration, and the other by out-of-power liberals and their allies in the State and in the press — a news flow that constantly forces me to focus on matters that I regard as of secondary importance to the excess deaths. What kind of political economy is it that halts or even reverses the increases in life expectancy that civilized societies have achieved? I am also very hopeful that the continuing destruction of both party establishments will open the space for voices supporting programs similar to those I have listed; let’s call such voices “the left.” Volatility creates opportunity, especially if the Democrat establishment, which puts markets first and opposes all such programs, isn’t allowed to get back into the saddle. Eyes on the prize! I love the tactical level, and secretly love even the horse race, since I’ve been blogging about it daily for fourteen years, but everything I write has this perspective at the back of it.

78 comments

      1. Henry D

        Yes, I second the recommendation for Arnica. Oh wait it’s a horse paste. Well at least it is one of the few treatments the USEF allows for pain treatment in their horses competitions. I hope you are feeling better.

  1. midtownwageslave

    Damn, the alphabet boys got Lambert with their loss-of-situational-awareness raygun.

    Fare thee well.

    1. MFB

      First they came for the people with Henry James character pseudonyms, but I did not respond, because I did not have a Henry James character pseudonym . . .

      More seriously, get well. Nothing like yours, Lambert, but I have horrible lumbago lately (luckily bending at the waist mollifies it so it encourages me to stay at my desktop). I blame Putin.

  2. Screwball

    Less than 30 days to go (I think) until the most important election in HISTORY!!!!!!

    I found the below post on my Facebook page today. I know this lady very very well. She is a retired paralegal who used to ignore politics years ago. Then Trump happened, and that changed. She has stage 5 TDS and has had it for a long time. She watches MSNMC, CNN, NYT, WaPo and reads Amanda Morcotte from Salon religiously. The Obama’s are her heroes, but just about any democrat will do, even Hillary, who’s book she owns and read. She believe everything the Democrats say is the truth – because they would NEVER lie to her. IOW, a typical PMC democrat to the tee.

    If you have not yet registered to vote, today is the LAST DAY to do so in Ohio. You can get registered in person at the Board of Elections (be sure to take your drivers license or State ID), or, you can register online.

    It is IMPERATIVE that you vote this year because it is obvious that Republicans continue to believe the Trump/Vance/Maga lies about everything from “protecting women” to FEMA funds being used to support relocating illegal aliens, to Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio, to the January 6 insurrection just being good people visiting the Capitol.

    Everything Trump, Vance and their Republican/Maga friends have said during this election cycle has been lies, including Trump saying he knows nothing about Project 2025. This person was NEVER a good businessman, so why people think he was is beyond me. And, by the way, he DID NOT personally send you checks when he was in the White House.

    How Americans can support someone that says there will be MASSIVE DEPORTATIONS of anyone he deems to be living here illegally. He says he will GO AFTER his enemies, including news personalities. How can you be sure you are not one of them? Who decides?

    They lie because they know they have supporters that will believe everything said and they will believe that electing Republicans is the only thing they can do to protect themselves, all the while knowing full well that these politicians have the end game to end our democracy and allow this country to become a dictatorship led by old white men, with women again having no rights. Most importantly, he needs to be elected so he can throw out any lawsuits/convictions against him.

    I just wish people would wake up and see the harm these people are planning to do to this country. PLEASE get out there, REGISTER TO VOTE and VOTE BLUE to save our Democracy. Thank you!!

    There you have it. This women is scared shitless. Just like so many others. They honestly believe it will be the end of the world if Trump is elected. That is the goal of the propaganda they watch. It works. I also notice, no mention of war, probably because she’s all in on war, because Putin…

    I’m confident there are people on the other side who are the same way. They believe it will be the end of the world as they know it too, but in different ways. What is left are those in the undecided category. How many? I have no clue.

    What I find truly sad in all this; this is where we are as a country. DC if full of people who don’t care about us, spend billions on war, write bills to benefit the donors and not the people, while ignoring our crumbling infrastructure, or medical system, inflation, well-being, and then lie about everything without shame.

    Yet, we have people like this that will walk on a sea of hot embers or broken glass to vote for these very same pieces of crap, and even beg people to do the same.

    Unbelievable. I don’t get it. How did we get here? I think the media has a lot to do with it.

    1. Ben Joseph

      So in summary,

      Everything they say are lies.

      Their supporters believe Everything.

      In therapy they call this all/none thinking. No yin in the yang. Pot/kettle.

    2. Dr. John Carpenter

      I want to know what people like this plan to do if the other team wins? They going to move? Start an armed revolution? Self immolation? I mean, what’s the plan? If you really believe the other side is the end of your democracy and a literal dictatorship, you owe it to those beliefs and the people you profess to care about to act! You have to more than whine on the Internet and vote harder next time around (because, there may not be a next time!)

      1. lyman alpha blob

        These are the credulous rather than creative types so my guess is they’re going to knit a pussy hat and blame Putin.

        The cognitive dissonance when they find they’re still alive come Wednesday morning should be entertaining.

      2. JBird4049

        >>>If you really believe the other side is the end of your democracy and a literal dictatorship, you owe it to those beliefs and the people you profess to care about to act!

        All they do is to verbally profess the righteousness of The Cause. Actually doing things like having medical care for everyone without exception or ensuring housing for everyone is somehow unpossible, but bombing terrorist babies is.

        At least when the Republicans inevitably betray you, they don’t insult you by pretending to feel your pain.

        1. Randall Flagg

          >At least when the Republicans inevitably betray you, they don’t insult you by pretending to feel your pain. That’s why I hate the R’s just a little bit less than the D’s.
          The R’s are right up front about their hatred for the little folks. The D’s pretend to care by whispering in your ear about all they will do for you as they are fighting so so much for you, but at the same time are sticking the knife in, slowly.

          1. MFB

            Back when the New Yorker could be read without emesis, they ran a cartoon of a flock of sheep admiring a billboard on which a wolf pledged to eat them all if elected. Their response was “He tells it like it is.”

      3. Carla

        Well, last time they knitted and wore pussy hats. Very effective, didn’t you notice?

        Jill Stein voter here. Throwing away my vote, just like everybody else.

    3. Rick

      I have a friend like that. He seems to be cool with abandoning the first amendment as well and would be happy with the government controlling public speech, as long as it is his team doing the censoring.

      As for me, I’m not undecided – I detest both candidates and detest even more a society that offers up this binary selection as the choice for the titular head of a large nation.

      I will vote as a symbolic act but won’t vote for either of the two parties.

      My question has been for some time (for either side): what about the other side after yours wins? Do you really think they will realize the error of their ways and disappear?

      We live in ever more crazy times.

    4. Samuel Conner

      It would be unkind (in the sense of encouraging paranoia) to reply thusly to that person, but the thought occurs, “if our institutions are already so weakened that the choice of next president determines the fate of the Republic, then it seems likely the Republic has, practically speaking, already ended, and the circumstance of a bad man coming to power will merely reveal what has already happened.”

      1. Walter

        Read this shortly after you posted, and I’ve come back to it twice. It’s really important. Thank you.

    5. sardonia

      If Trump wins, maybe you can gift her a stuffed Dick Cheney doll to sleep with at night to help her feel ok.

      1. ambrit

        If Trump wins, she’ll probably be so rattled that the best ‘gift’ to help her cope will be a Benelli “Dick Cheney” model over-under shotgun.

    6. Keith Newman

      As a Canadian I find the extreme emotion very peculiar. The policies of the two main candidates are largely the same on so much, albeit not quite on everything. I’ve even met Canadians who suffer from perhaps stage 3 TDS, again very peculiar since Orange Man (OM) is not a candidate here.
      When I point out that neither candidate is proposing anything that would actually help the vast majority of people such as Medicare for all, public childcare, public dental care, free prescription drugs, or anything else.They both love war, perhaps OM a little less than the other bland candidate.
      But it doesn’t matter. TDS reigns supreme.
      I guess it’s the relentless media barrage against OM.

    7. Vicky Cookies

      The other day I was at a protest outside the local HQ of the Democratic Party. I stepped away from it, and an older woman engaged me, saying she was “just SO mad at them”. She was wide-eyed, and visibly shaking. I asked at whom her anger was directed, not knowing if it was the Dems or the protesters – to see if she were friend or foe. She said it was the protesters. A conversation ensued. The protest was for Palestine, of course. She was terrified we would help elect Trump. Her argument was based in inaccurate, mainstream information, and when I refuted her points, she said I was a “fox news person”. I admit I lost my temper at this point, despite being so far left that I’d been accused of being right wing nearly my whole life. She then muscled her way through the crowd an attempted an impassioned appeal to reason, as she saw it, to the gathered protesters, regarding the danger of Trump. Many there, it must be said, had relatives in Palestine. Needless to say, her speech didn’t work out the way she thought it might. I felt bad for yelling at her, until I heard later that she had asked an organizer about the citizenship status of the Muslim protesters. Dems are fascists, pure and simple, and I am way more afraid of them than I am of republicans.

      1. hk

        Someone (Dostoyevsky, I think) said that the true believers are the most dangerous people. He also observed that “2*2=4” is far more dangerous than “2+2=5” (although, technically, he came well before Orwell): “2*2=4 is mathematics. Try arguing with that.” Of course, what TDSers believe isn’t exactly “2*2=4,” but they believe it is in many cases, so you can’t argue with them. So, yes, they pose far greater danger to United States and the world generally than anything Trump has.

      2. SocalJimObjects

        My exposure to TDS seems is very mild by comparison. I was at this breakfast place in Daly City, CA, sometime in 2016, waiting to make a take away order when a white lady clambered over to me asking if I was a Trump supporter out of the blue. Her exact words were “Sir, are you planning to vote for Trump? It’s ok if you do. What’s Hadoop?”

        So a year prior, I had been hired as a Big Data Engineer at a South Bay company, and it was then pretty common for engineers to attend multiple tech conferences every year. If you have not guessed already by this point, Hadoop is simply a piece of tech, https://hadoop.apache.org/. At the local diner, I was wearing a RED T-Shirt with the word Hadoop emblazoned at the front, which I had scored at one of those tech conferences. So basically the lady saw RED, and immediately assumed that I was a Trump supporter. I believe the term TDS had yet to go mainstream at that time or maybe I wasn’t yet tuned to the whole Trump phenomena, but not knowing how to handle the situation, I basically decided to ignore her questions.

        By 2021, when I was finally given a chance to apply for the US Green Card, the scary amount of TDS and my personal experience of it, however mild definitely contributed to my decision to say no to the offer (getting punched by a homeless man spouting racial epithets at the height of Covid certainly didn’t help either). Since I was from a country with a comparatively low level of immigration to the US, it would have been easy for me to score a Green Card without having to wait too long (I was told “a year or two” at most), but I still declined.

  3. doug

    I know that feeling when expecting a solid surface, only to experience air; baffling at first then gravity takes over. Rest up. Anti-inflammatory might help.

  4. ambrit

    We have an app for apt metaphors. The Henry James Exegesis Algorithm.
    Be down reclining and supine before the maladvertant forces assailing you of late. If you can, get one of your “Escape Club” brothers or sisters up in Frederickton to send you some of the Canadian over the counter painkillers. I guarantee superior pain alleviation upon application. (Unless you are physiologically unable to metabolize opiates.)
    Stay safe.

  5. Michael Fiorillo

    If you can, try lying down flat on the floor with your legs raised, making sure your knees are well-supported; it will help the lower back calm down.
    Best wishes.

    1. Revenant

      You could try this in a hot bath (ideally with somebody in the house who can help you out in case you find you cannot manage unaided!). Nothing better than a bath for muscle pain.

  6. Verifyfirst

    Food aid to Gaza falls as Israel sets new aid rule – sources

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/food-aid-to-gaza-falls-as-israel-sets-new-aid-rule-sources/ar-AA1rAF4i

    Somewhere around 1 and 1/2 million imprisoned people being systematically starved to death in broad daylight seems to not be newsworthy anymore.

    You don’t hear about food drops, and the pathetic US attempt at a floating pier…..well, I’m certain the Army Corps of Engineers of WW2 vintage are turning in their graves after that fiasco.

  7. Samuel Conner

    Get well soon, Lambert.

    ——–

    The pictured bee balm may be Monarda didyma, aka “Oswego Tea”. M. fistulosa, aka “Wild Bergamot” is a less visually appealing plant (blossoms are pale lavender-ish), but has the helpful property that (at least in my experience) its leaves contain substances that de-inflame bug bites. A poultice of crushed leaf held in place with tape on a bite makes itch and swelling go away quickly, My Wild Bergamot has not spread over multiple seasons; they produce a lot of seed but it may be that the dryness of the locations in which they are planted makes it hard for volunteers to get established. Each plant sends up 1-2 dozen stalks each year but otherwise stays in place.

    1. Chet G

      I’ve a tag for Monarda didyma, so you’re spot on. I grow it in a pot, and the plant seldom lasts beyond one season.

      1. Harold

        It’s a beautiful, saturated color. Probably a hybrid. It is true they are rampant growers, but paradoxically hard to get going, at first.

  8. k

    Ice it!!!!!!!!

    Walgreens and CVS carry red clay ice packs. Purchase one or two, you won’t regret it.

    1. MFB

      My father-in-law used to use packets of frozen peas, which mould to the shape of your body. I don’t know if they’d be cheaper than bespoke packs.

  9. CA

    Just an idea from an orthopedist friend: An idea; no more. Walking is a fine way to strengthen stomach muscles, that in turn takes pressure off the lower back. Walking can be fine lower back therapy.

    1. NYMutza

      I have a walking route that includes a stretch of smooth pavement on an incline. I walk this section backwards – approx 1 mile. The neighbors know me for my backward walking. I feel that walking backwards helps the lower back and improves posture as you can’t lean forward while walking backwards. I highly recommend it.

  10. Glen

    Oh, ouch! Get better.

    About a year ago. I was out weed wacking with our baby battery powered weed wacker (not the big gas powered, wear a harness to hold it one), came into the house to clean up, and collapsed in the living room with what ended up (after the ambulance ride, and an ER visit,) being a bad back. ER doc just gave me pain killers, and I ended up in bed for over a month. I’m up and around now, but my back is still quick to tell me when I’m over doing it.

  11. James B Casey Jr.

    Very sorry to read of your injury. I hope your pain subsides quickly and your recovery is swift.

  12. Yves Smith

    As others recommended, ice for the first 48 hours. I would see if you can order a back chill pack. There are both EMT one use types where you crack them with your hands; the contents of the two chambers react and get very cold for 20 mins. The other type you put in a freezer and apply. There are ones that go with body parts. I got some big ones for my hips. There have to be ones for people after back surgery.

    After first 48 hours, alternate heat and cold.

  13. antidlc

    Note to Henry Moon Pie:

    I missed your post yesterday and just wanted you to know we are wishing you all the best. Hope the surgery is successful.

    1. flora

      I agree. I missed it yesterday, too.

      HMP, very best wishes for a successful and speedy recovery.

    2. Lena

      I also missed it.

      Henry, may your doctors and other medical professionals be kind as well as skillful. May your healing be a good one with much loving and tender care. Peace be with you.

  14. NYMutza

    I had a similar tumble not long ago, though ti was forward instead of backwards. I stepped off a curb expecting the normal drop. Instead, ground subsidence increased the drop by six inches which caused me to lose my balance. No harm, except to my pride. Fortunately, no vehicles were in motion at the time of the stumble. It is advisable to look before you leap. :)

  15. Rick

    Best of luck to you, Lambert. I always find it disorienting when injured. I’ve followed your writing since the early years of Corrente.

  16. jax

    Lambert, best wishes that your back will align for you in record time. I’ve been in that place when out of nowhere the universe signals ‘Timber!’ We’re thinking about you.

  17. sharron

    Having a slightly herniated lower disc in my back, I keep prescription muscle relaxers on hand. I use them along with ice and eventually heating pads. After a few days things have calmed down. I resume my back exercises to strengthen my lower back. I am not very consistent about doing them, but a strained back gets me right back on track after the acute phase goes away. Good luck. I swear by physical therapy to keep joints moving over the years.

  18. lyman alpha blob

    Couple things –

    Excellent interview of Taibbi on CSPAN.

    Seeing some highlights from Trump’s return to Butler PA and it was quite the Americagasm. He did take time to recognize Corey Comperatore, the fireman who was shot by Crooks, including a tribute by this opera singer. I probably shouldn’t laugh, but couldn’t help it at about the :30 mark when Trump asks for a moment of silence, almost immediately followed by a loud, and not silent, “BONG” that might have been caused by somebody taking a whack at the Liberty Bell. Later the same singer belted out Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah”, a Puccini aria, and “America the Beautiful”. Really not sure what to make of all that…

    1. flora

      Gosh, I don’t know. Maybe I’m an outlier here. I watched a bit of that and it brought me near to tears. Not because of the Leonard Cohen song, though I love the old “Hallelujah” Cohen song, but because of the other songs. What can I say.

      “americangasim” or something we USians all learned much older than a mockery.

      1. lyman alpha blob

        That’s the thing – the opera singer was really good! I just wouldn’t have expected to see that at a Trump rally.

        There was also a very humanizing short speech by the paramedic who treated him after the assassination attempt – I’m sure they won’t be featuring that on MSNBC. And then the way he opened the rally with an “As I was saying…” was really funny. I’m not much for the USA USA jingoism but somehow it seems like a softer, gentler kind of jingoism compared to hearing it during the Bush years. And he is now running against the Cheney faction, although I have no illusions that US sponsored wars would end if he manages to take office again. He is coming across as likable. Is he trying the old WWE heel to face schtik?

        1. alfred venison

          MSNBC & Gutenberg era legacy media generally are Democrat media & limited in their reach to mainly Democrat groupies. This well choreographed spectacle with something for everyone will be all over X and the other post-Gutenberg media that control freaks like John Kerry & his ilk fret so much about.

  19. The Rev Kev

    Hope you get better soon. There is nothing like the feeling that you have when you know that you are falling, can do nothing to stop it, must even let it play out and see how much damage that you will get. At least you saved your camera so there is that. Rest up.

  20. ex-PFC Chuck

    Having a history of back issues going back nearly 50 years when I herniated a lumbar disk, a bed may not be the best place to promote your recovery. When my back acts up I sleep on the floor a few days cushioned by a Thermarest (TM) camping mattress. Failing the availability of that, a quilt or thick blanket folded into several layers might suffice.
    Also it’s best not to lie flat on your back or stomach. Lie either on your side or on your back with several pillows under your bent knees.
    Best wishes for a quick recovery!

  21. Randall Flagg

    Well If you’re stuck with nothing to do and as States are now sending out ballots to vote by mail, maybe this will be of some help.

    https://ballotpedia.org/Main_Page

    One may check out the candidates that will be on the ballots in their own states. Go to the Candidates respective websites especially if you are looking for options other than the 2 majors. An interesting site.
    For instance, choices that will be on the ballot for President in the Green Mountain State:

    FEDERAL

    President of the United States

    Kamala D. Harris
    DEMOCRATIC PARTY
    Tim Walz (Running mate)

    Donald Trump
    REPUBLICAN PARTY
    J.D. Vance (Running mate)

    Cornel West
    GREEN MOUNTAIN PEACE AND JUSTICE PARTY
    Melina Abdullah (Running mate)

    Chase Oliver
    LIBERTARIAN PARTY
    Mike ter Maat (Running mate)

    Claudia De La Cruz
    PARTY FOR SOCIALISM AND LIBERATION
    Karina Garcia (Running mate)

    Rachele Fruit
    SOCIALIST WORKERS PARTY
    Dennis Richter (Running mate)

    Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (This candidate withdrew but will still appear on the ballot)
    WE THE PEOPLE
    Nicole Shanahan (Running mate)

    You may also see the candidates for Senate and House races and so on.
    Personally, I’d rather go into the booth on election day and save the hassle if I had mailed it in and needed to change my vote. But, one should do what they feel is best. Never feel like you are throwing your vote away by voting in a different direction.

    1. Pat

      Well if they do have the final ballot, Andy Cuomo got his wish and limited candidate access in most cases. As there is a Conservative Party nominee and a Libertarian down ballot it appears New Yorkers are limited to Harris, Trump, write in or leaving the Presidential ballot line blank.

      Looks like I may have to do something I said I wouldn’t do a year ago, vote for Trump. He is not just the lesser evil but also the only way I can tell the distinctly undemocratic Democrats to family bog themselves.

  22. AG

    May be the constant banging at the door does help.

    German alterntive news site Telepolis is quoting Conor´s article on the Turkish S-400!

    This might not be coincidence from the German side since the author is Uwe Kerkow who runs this very good site on the Gobal South: https://epo-mediawatch.blogspot.com/

    His article would be here:
    https://www.telepolis.de/features/Tuerkei-Kapern-die-USA-die-S-400-9963226.html

    I have been waiting for Martyanov to comment on the issue. Nothing so far I believe.

    p.s. Telepolis is struggling to not fall prey to the latest rightwing turn among German media.
    Several of their decisions in the past 2-3 years had been quite unfortunate. That´s why such details matter a lot.

  23. Pat

    Adding to the take care of yourself and hope you feel better soon chorus, Lambert. And listen to the voices of experience. Just know that while you are missed, your health and well being are what’s important, do not push yourself to return beyond what your body tells you you can do.

  24. Thistlebreath

    Ouch. Several years ago I was at a gym doing hip shrugs w/resistance and a cable snapped. Stumbled around and hit flat on my back. Hard. An orthopod said I lucked out and didn’t need surgery. But it took a looong time to heal. You have my deepest sympathy. And wishes for a full recovery.

  25. Ben Panga

    Harris on 60 minutes

    Did anybody watch and did anything notable come out of it?

    My assumption is soft-ball questions and meaningless responses.

    I’m interested in any impressions people had of it.

Comments are closed.